Is the use of a handbrake or parking brake still taught?

[normspanners]

Needless to say when I asked him if he used his gears I was told there is no need to do that on modern lorries.................

that is what you left heel is for, pressing the exhaust brake button.
I had one trucker that said it was a pain when he kept getting out that he caught the stop button with his heel.
he honestly didnt know it was the brake.

 

[reb78]

Oh, it was different on 'fast' hills - then you should have a gear engaged.

But, if it felt like the engine was being 'pushed' by the car (what you or I would refer to as engine braking) then you should select a higher gear...

The instructor didn't like engine braking during normal driving either, such as approaching junctions - "the brakes are for slowing, the engine is for going" (I kid you not) and was insistent on keeping your foot on the clutch and 'block shifting' (incorrect use of the term, they meant going from 4th or 5th to first when you're nearly stopped).

It wasn't a one off either, she had 3 instructors from different schools and they all said the same sort of nonsense.

My instructor was the same in '96. I still cant understand it. Braking on the gears means that you are always in the correct gear to react if the situation changes rather than having to guess where to point the gearlever. It also means you have more control of the car as you arent drifing along in neutral. Plus, as mentioned above it decreases the likelihood of brake fade if you brake on the gears.

 

[rtbcomp]

It's beginning to sound like you have to drive badly to pass your test.

As for pedestrian crossings I always put it in neutral and apply the handbrake and keep the foot brake pressed for reasons mentioned earlier.

 

[normspanners]

Oh, it was different on 'fast' hills - then you should have a gear engaged.

some of the alps roads arnt fast-------- 1st gear and the brakes !! try the wurzenpass straight down for 2K 1in 3 with a hairpin at the bottom that was interesting with a car on the trailer !! as soon as you lifted the brake the engine would over rev so the brakes had to be used then at the bottom all the brakes where glowing red, trailer as well and had to re bleed before continuing, my navigator had the door open ready to abandon ship !!

 

[Parm]

On a far more serious note there was a nasty accident in Bath recently. A stone lorry with a new driver ran away down a hill and killed several people. The lorry owner and the mechanic received very stiff jail terms due to the bad state of the lorry but the driver was found not guilty.
Now I am not saying the verdict was wrong however I think an older driver wouldn't have had an accident. The new driver had cooked the brakes and it was bad fade that caused the accident. He was driving as he had been taught.
I called into the Tesco petrol station in Glynneath at the bottom of the A465 hill one day. There was a tanker discharging petrol. The smell of burning brakes was awful and I could see smoke still coming from the wheels. I asked the driver what was wrong and he said - oh it always does it after that hill. Needless to say when I asked him if he used his gears I was told there is no need to do that on modern lorries.................

I think this case was a little more complex, several people were charged and convicted of falsifying maintenance records in relation to the brakes. None had been carried out. The lorry driver didn't stand a chance.

My team have another similar case on at the moment involving an agricultural trailer and tractor resulting in a fatal RTC. It's going to court early next year

 

[anto]

Passed my test in 2002.
My dad taught me and then I took a couple of lessons with an instructor as I needed his car for the test.
He came into the house and complimented my dad on his teaching of me.

I always thought coasting ie clutch in or in neutral to be illegal as you weren't in control of the vehicle, particularly on hills?!!?!?

 

[dannyp]

when i did my trailer test i droped back into driveing test mode and got repeatedly moaned at for it, you were taught to drive like this ect ect ect that not how it's done now ect. and that i should be in higest gear possible, use brakes to slow not engine ect as brakes are cheep and gearboxes are not.

driveing like that lasted for all of about 5 minutes till a muppet on a bike shot out of an allyway and across me and i left rubber on the road thankfully at that monet thought thats the test knackerd and just drove so much easyer and smoother.

in my view cars do not like all the throttel none of the revs , it beats the dual mass up. if you can use a clutch gearboxes don't wear, engines don't mind revs or overun but they hate labouring, clutches don't really wear much ether if you use them right. and brakes while they are easy to change id's rather not.

in my daily cars over las 10 yrs i've never broken a clutch, gearbox, and usally get 40K to a set of brake pads, and i don't exatly drive it slowly sometimes it even ventures out onto a track. the pet golf is a diffrent matter ( i can usally get through a set of pads, a clutch and at least 1 gearbox every year and a engine rebuild or swap every other but thats because i drive it like i'm not allowed to, yes the marshalls at coombe like to get the black flag out )

 

[dannyp]

Passed my test in 2002.
My dad taught me and then I took a couple of lessons with an instructor as I needed his car for the test.
He came into the house and complimented my dad on his teaching of me.

I always thought coasting ie clutch in or in neutral to be illegal as you weren't in control of the vehicle, particularly on hills?!!?!?

apparently its not cosasting if the gearbox is in gear....................... thats what i was told i don't agree with it tho

 

[tlovatt]

Never seen one that works and have mot'd thousands when you release the footbrake brake it just comes off on most.

If you use the brakes normally it will do, once stopped you have to give an additional quick reasonably hard depression then ease off and the word hold should appear in the cars display. I do not know if any cars other than Mrecs have the system fitted

 

[wookie]

Apparently, it had become correct that if you're going down a steep hill slowly that you should put your foot on the clutch and use the footbrake for control - "if you're in gear, it might run away with you"...

Sorry but the driving instructor is talking total rubbish. I wasn't taught that way and I refuse to change. Using engine braking and the service brake is far safer than just using the brake pedal. Try driving off road or in snow or any other situation where there is limited grip and then keeping the engine connected to the wheels is only safe way to drive.

But, if it felt like the engine was being 'pushed' by the car (what you or I would refer to as engine braking) then you should select a higher gear...

Again the driving instructor is talking complete garbage, if the engine is being pushed by the car then if anything you need to be in a lower gear so the engine can provide more engine braking effect not less.

Honestly they should be encouraging people to use engine braking rather than saying don't do it, after all modern cars stop using fuel on the over run when the gearbox drives the engine thus saving fuel and the planet.

My instructor was the same in '96. I still cant understand it. Braking on the gears means that you are always in the correct gear to react if the situation changes rather than having to guess where to point the gearlever. It also means you have more control of the car as you arent drifing along in neutral. Plus, as mentioned above it decreases the likelihood of brake fade if you brake on the gears.

Also you are less likely to lockup the wheels when braking especially on a front wheel drive car if you're in gear and using engine braking.

I refuse to rely on gizmos like ABS and traction control to keep me safe. I've seen too many people come to grief thinking ABS will stop me when it's pouring down and they slam the brakes on only to aquaplane into a wall.

 

[Justme]

Talking of indicators what baffles me is the people who indicate left to leave a roundabout but don't bother indicating right which is much more important! I can understand people not indicating at all - but why do so many do this? indicating left to leave is more courtesy than anything but indicating right is pretty important!

Wow.

Moaning about one non compliance whilst thinking left to leave is a courtesy.

Roundabouts are in essence a one way ring road that all exits are to the left.

To leave you must indicate.

Roundabouts are easy.

On simple non mini ones:-
Indicate left on approach for the first exit be that left or straight on.
Indicate right on approach for all rights.
If left is the second or subsequent exit do not indicate on approach but indicate left when you cant take the exit before the one you want.
NEVER indicate right to go straight on, even if the straight on is after junction 2. Straight on is straight on even if exit 10.
If the roundabout has multiple lanes then move over (and indicate left prior to doing so) one lane as you pass each junction so you are in the outer lane as you get to your exit.
On gyratorys ensure you enter round about into the lane that takes you to your exit, follow the lane, watch for people doing it as per a ringed lane one. Indicate right on approach if going right, left if left, plus if needing to change lanes & to exit.

Mini roundabouts:-

left for left
right for right
nothing for straight on

Roundabouts are one of if not the biggest area I have to fix for full licence holders who come for further training.

So many dont indicate, indicate wrong or so late the other drivers already know what you are doing.

Never indicate left past an exit if in outer lane.

Good timing is key.

 

[Justme]

It might not move if you see it coming and brace for impact.

But, if it's a complete surprise you get a series of events if you're in gear with brake and clutch down - the impact occurs and your feet lift slightly reducing the braking effort and allowing the clutch to bite, then the lurch of the clutch grabbing lifts your feet further, so you're moving forward, propelled by the engine with no brakes.

You can get a good couple of yards before reacting and hitting that pedal again so if you're at traffic lights or a give way line you're halfway across that lane...

I've seen exactly that happen once while I was in the passenger seat, luckily there was nothing coming or it could've been really quite nasty.

That once is one time too many for me to want to test it out for myself...

Being pushed forwards when hit is better than staying still.

 

[Justme]

There does seem to be some confusion re the brakes & gears.

Brakes are for slowing BUT you dont do it with the clutch down.

Sadly many learners start to use the method as it is easy to get the gear shifts right & they dont have to listen & feel when a change is actually needed. They also tend to get caught out if the plan changes from slow to stop to slow then go.

Also sadly far to many learners are taught to follow a pattern to pass the test in the lowest hours.

The reason for this is PARENTS.

Yep thats right YOU.

The most common question I get asked by a parent is along the lines of how few lesson can you get them to pass the test in. IE how cheap.

Followed up with BUT I passed in 5-15 hours when you tell them the averages.

Parents do not want their kids to learn to drive but to pass the test.

Thankfully my marketing is now weeding out that type of parent & I get more of the ones that want their kids to actually learn to drive to a safe standard.


When your kids learn a subject at school or college they have to learn the whole subject. They dont know which bit will be tested. The driving test is a known factor that covers less than 5-10% of the driving syllabus.
The Gov produce a course requirement for learners.

Its called
National standards for driving and riding

Check it out here, you might be suprised.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/national-driving-and-riding-standards

 

[slim_boy_fat]

My first driving lesson cost 10/- [read....50p] for the hour, then they [didn't need that many, can't remember exactly ] went up due to that nasty inflation thing to 12/6 [ 63p...scandalous increase !! ].

And no, my name's not Methuselah

 

[pedrobedro]

I learnt to drive when cars only had 4 gears and you changed down to 3rd then 2nd before you got to a corner or roundabout. When my wife was learning it was gears to go, brakes to slow so she would go from 5th to 3rd or 2nd after braking to the appropriate speed and would go downhill with the brake on in whatever gear she was in at the top. She passed her test first time after about 4 double lessons and has driven for a parts firm on Saturdays for the last 20 years with only one bump which was not her fault. My sister took her test over 12 times before she passed, I told her to give up but she kept going. A friend's wife took her test a similar number of times and she was a really good driver just a bag of nerves on test day. The theory on the brakes thing is that brake shoes used to be a big job so you preserved them for as long as possible but disc pads are an easy swap and are easier to see so no need to preserve them.

 

[normspanners]

Roundabouts are in essence a one way ring road that all exits are to the left.

I am not getting at you at all, and agree BUT, what about the lanes they impose on you to try and force you to stay in the wrong 'natural' flowing position on roundabouts around here, they are everywhere and are completely alien to normal roundabout manners, so surely you are supposed to indicate when wanting to change lanes ? whilst on the roundabout ie there are lanes laid down around here that carry you round 3 -4 junctions in N/S lane in my eyes in the wrong lane, sometimes forcing people because of the line of traffic to not be able to leave at their junction, because they cant get across the lines of traffic a lot of women at school time (and men) havnt a clue where they are supposed to be, because of the 3 and some 4 lanes around some big bouts that is what it is like in fact a 'bout' of a fight !!

 

[GW8IZR]

I'd never say the way people are taught to drive today is wrong, the training is based on current thinking and maybe its right. New driver, well teach everyone a safe simple system.

Personally I downshift, always have, a police advanced instructor told me 'its up to you' to determine what is the best method of car control but that was a different test altogether. I expect most of us that were taught to downshift were driving cars with drum brakes that would fade to nothing if you came down a big hill just using them.

Funny thing is, three of my automatic transmissions have changed down themselves when descending hills. (Nissan, Toyota and Saab) so 'they' must think its ok.

 

[normspanners]

I learnt to drive when cars only had 4 gears

your young then ??
I remember helping my dad fit the later box in our hillman, it had four speeds, still only had 3 sycro's though, better than the two in the original.
and that was the car I used to compete on the silver wheel driving skill competitions off road when 12 hehe used to aggravate my dad when I used to beat him !!

 

[GW8IZR]

There were no 106's when I learned to drive.. and I did say 'most' ;-)

(edit) I wonder who taught you and how old he/she was, maybe older driving instructors just passed on how they were taught.

(edit 2 ) perhaps its all in the changeover from older vehicles to the more complicated vehicles of today ?

 

[normspanners]

If you use the brakes normally it will do, once stopped you have to give an additional quick reasonably hard depression then ease off and the word hold should appear in the cars display. I do not know if any cars other than Mrecs have the system fitted

IRC hill hold was only fitted after 2008ish on some models of merc before that there was nothing just the clunk bang
I never use the handbrake for hill starts, I just press the three pedals when needed. and all at the same time for hill starts always have.
for hand brakes on the move are for turning round quickly