Setting landy Bosch Ve pump timing no dial gauge

[Robbie260]

Hello all one for the Land Rover lads and lassies is there any way of fine tuning the Bosch Ve pump timing on a 300tdi engine without using a dial indicator gauge in the back of the pump. Know you can slacken the pulley bolts and advance and retard the timing using the shaft nut. The pump I have been provided for fitting to the engine has a timing tool hole but it’s more of a slot with plenty of movement from side to side.

 

[8ob]

Basic timing on those can be achieved with a drill bit pushed through the pulley/hub and into the ali pump housing.

Bob

 

[premmington]

If you were closer you could borrow mine. I got a Sykes set

There is two sorts for Bosch VE pumps - threaded in - for VW VAG pumps and lever type for 200/300 LR pumps.

they not expensive ex ebay....

 

[premmington]

Basic timing on those can be achieved with a drill bit pushed through the pulley/hub and into the ali pump housing.

Bob

I done loads of VW Audi pumps - static timing to get it close with dial gauge - then VCDS to get it spot on

https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-scope/TDIGraph.html -

or timing light with peizo pickup.

Never done a Land Rover 200/300tdi.

I don't touch LR stuff - I hate it.....

 

[Robbie260]

Basic timing on those can be achieved with a drill bit pushed through the pulley/hub and into the ali pump housing.

Bob

Aye that’s not my sticking point got that sorted. Trying to fine tune the thing to much slop in the timing hole on this pump.

If you were closer you could borrow mine. I got a Sykes set

There is two sorts for Bosch VE pumps - threaded in - for VW VAG pumps and lever type for 200/300 LR pumps.

they not expensive ex ebay....

Thanks would have taken you up on that offer. Have one on order but it’s not going to get here in time for the job. Local landy lad said to turn it right up then gradually back it off might be the way to go. Apparently the engines are more than capable of coping with it.

 

[8ob]

Aye that’s not my sticking point got that sorted. Trying to fine tune the thing to much slop in the timing hole on this pump.

There isn't, all that slop is to account for variations in timing belt stretch, there is a plug in the bottom of the bellhousing, bring the flywheel around until you see the v notch when no1 is on compression, simple drill bit of the right side will go through the slot in the pump hub and into the casting of the pump. The sloppy bit you are referring to is the adjustment in the pulley.

Bob

 

[julianf]

As Bob says, that oval in the locking plate is to take up error rather than be an intended method of fine tuning.

Without the adjustment you wouldn't even necessarily be able to get the pin in the pump when the crank was at tdc.

Iirc the red (or blue) box dial indicator sets, with the adapters for the ip are really not a lot of cash. Like 15 or 30 quid or something?


Note, getting the pin into the pump is often deceptive on these. As in it seems to have gone in, but it's not actually gone the whole way.

A pump at rest (ie not even on a vehicle) does not take the pin. You always have to slightly tension the shaft for the pin to slide fully home.

I mean you may well know this, but I say it in case you don't, and you're struggling somehow?

 

[julianf]

I mean, who doesnt have one of these pumps on their lounge floor to take a quick snap of?

You see the slot doesnt line up with the hole when the pump is at rest / not tensioned?

 

[Robbie260]

As Bob says, that oval in the locking plate is to take up error rather than be an intended method of fine tuning.

Without the adjustment you wouldn't even necessarily be able to get the pin in the pump when the crank was at tdc.

Iirc the red (or blue) box dial indicator sets, with the adapters for the ip are really not a lot of cash. Like 15 or 30 quid or something?


Note, getting the pin into the pump is often deceptive on these. As in it seems to have gone in, but it's not actually gone the whole way.

A pump at rest (ie not even on a vehicle) does not take the pin. You always have to slightly tension the shaft for the pin to slide fully home.

I mean you may well know this, but I say it in case you don't, and you're struggling somehow?

No struggling never done it before or attempted it customers car that needs sorting on Thursday tried to persuade them to wait till Friday till I got the tool but has to be done Thursday for some reason best known to him. Have a 200tdi sitting in the shed I’m going to have a butchers at in the morning but from what he’s telling me he’s bough some no genuine pump for which the timing hole is way too big. Got to go look at the disco to determine the what he’s on about.

 

[Trevorleach]

If

Aye that’s not my sticking point got that sorted. Trying to fine tune the thing to much slop in the timing hole on this pump.


Thanks would have taken you up on that offer. Have one on order but it’s not going to get here in time for the job. Local landy lad said to turn it right up then gradually back it off might be the way to go. Apparently the engines are more than capable of coping with it.

If you advance them to far they knock on idle.

 

[Robbie260]

If

If you advance them to far they knock on idle.

That would make sense.

 

[julianf]

I forget quite what I had to do for the last mot, but I think I swapped pumps 3 times...

Original failed emissions (and I couldn't get it to run properly)
Swapped to gutless backup (fuel metering pin stuck) which passed
Swapped back to smoky one whilst I fixed the gutless one.
Swapped in the no longer gutless one.

So, yeah, 3 swaps. But I've done the job a load of times prior too for various reasons.

And I always seem to forget needing to tension the pump for the pin to go in : (


If the chaps pump has a hole that's too large it's going to be impossible to get a pin in that's large enough to time the pump but will still fit though all the other stuff. Wondering if you couldn't drill a very shallow locating recess in the bottom of his pumps pin hole?

 

[Robbie260]

I mean, who doesnt have one of these pumps on their lounge floor to take a quick snap of?


View attachment 428927


You see the slot doesnt line up with the hole when the pump is at rest / not tensioned?

From my understanding of what the customer has said the slot on the flange on his pump is that entire u shape machined out and doesn’t have that secondary thinner slot behind it.

 

[Robbie260]

If the chaps pump has a hole that's too large it's going to be impossible to get a pin in that's large enough to time the pump but will still fit though all the other stuff. Wondering if you couldn't drill a very shallow locating recess in the bottom of his pumps pin hole?

Yes this is what I gather the problem is will get a look on Thursday will see what I can do.

 

[julianf]

From my understanding of what the customer has said the slot on the flange on his pump is that entire u shape machined out and doesn’t have that secondary thinner slot behind it.

Tricky. I mean it's not like you could even get a temporary plate (penny washer sort of thing) in there as you wouldn't really be able to get it out again and it would just fall into the depths of the timing chest.

And a machined (fatter) pin wouldn't fit though the other stuff.

I don't think you can just take that flange off and put another one on either. I guess you could attempt to mark it all up but it's one of those things that documents tell you NOT to do for some reason.

 

[OJCar]

Basic timing on those can be achieved with a drill bit pushed through the pulley/hub and into the ali pump housing.

Bob

9.5mm drill

 

[Robbie260]

Tricky. I mean it's not like you could even get a temporary plate (penny washer sort of thing) in there as you wouldn't really be able to get it out again and it would just fall into the depths of the timing chest.

And a machined (fatter) pin wouldn't fit though the other stuff.

I don't think you can just take that flange off and put another one on either. I guess you could attempt to mark it all up but it's one of those things that documents tell you NOT to do for some reason.

From my understanding the hole in the outer pulley is the same size which doesn’t really help the situation.

 

[julianf]

Well, if he has the whole set, and it matches, I guess it will just be the same task as standard, but with a different sized pin?

So it's going to be the locking plate, the sprocket itself, the flange on the pump shaft and the pump casting... I mean if they're all the same diameter, I guess you just need to find a drill bit to match.

It's if one of them is smaller that the bother comes in.


If you're using one of those red box locking tool kits, they push the pump out of the back of the timing chest though the pump sprocket. Which is nice as it pushes out the pump whilst locking the sprocket.

But if it's a non standard sprocket, I guess that won't be happening and you'll be needing to take the timing chest cover off, rather than just the access plate.


All sounds like madness. A (standard) used pump isn't even a whole load of cash for these, but, if he's paying you, it's not your concern, I guess! : )

 

[reb78]

9.5mm drill

Beat me to it.

 

[8ob]

From my understanding of what the customer has said the slot on the flange on his pump is that entire u shape machined out and doesn’t have that secondary thinner slot behind it.

If the pump is off something else you may have issues, on some set ups/engines timing is not at tdc, they can be a fair way out so folk dont crash valves into pistons when changing cam belts. If that pump is off an engine like that timing could be way out. Little pointer if this is the case, the keyway in the pump shaft ( if you were looking at the pulley hub face) will always line up (squirting) with the port at the at the back. Should be able to spill time from that and get the firing order correct, that would get it started.

Bob