Wow! Argonshield!

NOW I see what all the fuss is about. Have been working with co2 uo till now. Just switched to Argonshield and the difference is amazing. If there's any other beginners (like me) on here debating whether to stick with cheap/free pub c02 or go with rented argonshield - do yourself a favour and go with the latter. Nice fizzle, MUCH tidier welds and the bottles a nice green colour to liven up your workshop!

fred

Argoshield vs CO2

Just switched to Argonshield and the difference is amazing.

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I've been trying to tell the people of East Lancashire that for 15 years! but the majority don't listen; always the cheapest option ie.CO2.
The difference really is amazing. I've had machines in for repair that were supposedly 'faulty', only to find that they had been on CO2 gas; put them on Argoshield & A1.
weldequip

I have never even tried co2, some of the new maxx gases are even noticably better tan argosheild.

I've found the arc with CO2 isn't at all stable - cuts out and restarts every now and again as if the metal still had paint on it. Argon makes the arc really smooth (nice fizzle sound), and the little bit of CO2 and O2 in Argoshoield make the weld smooth and flat too.

Are you using Ferromaxx Hitachimad? What differences have you found?

We use Ferromaxx, Inomaxx and alumaxx.

Especially noticable with the inverter migs, the combination of the two, you can get a lot more penetration for the same settings. Burns in better on non preped joints for seal welds etc.
Less spatter aswell, noticable welding internal corners etc.

Is there a noticable difference over the BOC equivalents, or is it just that they get a better deal through Air Products??
weldequip

Dont know tbh, we are an air products dealer, so......!

Finaly got my first welder (xmas present via Weldequip above) and have a pub C)2 bottle in the garage but don't have a regulator for it. I have the choice of either spending £25-£30 on a regulator for it or spending and extra £50 and getting a bottle of the proper stuff. As a beginer and after seeing the gas comparison section of this site I think the pub bottle will be staying at the back of the garage!

Good choice!

It will be far easier to learn with the right stuff

The article on welding gas in the latest Practical Classics says pub CO2 has some nitrogen in it and that this is bad for welding. Or words t that effect. I did think it was a shame they did not inform people of Malcolm's tutorials on this site.

Pub CO2 is about 97% pure IIRC.

Some of the pub CO2 gases are totally unsuitable for welding as they can contain 25% Nitrogen. These 'mixed gases' are used on Guiness & the like as the high Nitrogen content improves the flow at the pump.
weldequip

Yes, but they are actually 30% CO2/70% Nitrogen, the BOC cylinders are clearly marked "Suremix" in white writing on a grey bottle with a green shoulder. The bottles marked "SureGas" in white writing on a black bottle are gaseous supply CO2 which is minimum 97% pure food grade CO2.

And in addition the bottle connectors are different, mixed gas won't go onto your CO2 regulator.

weldequip said:

Some of the pub CO2 gases are totally unsuitable for welding as they can contain 25% Nitrogen. These 'mixed gases' are used on Guiness & the like as the high Nitrogen content improves the flow at the pump.
weldequip

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Might improve the flow, completely spoils the taste

Sticking up for pub CO2 gas

I'd like to stick up for using the cheap and cheerful pub CO2 gas for MIG! I've been doing welding repair of my big Daimler (viz 1988 Daimler Double Six) and have been using none but pub CO2 gas. With loads of practice I've been able to get weld beads almost as flat as with Argoshield (which used when buying my big BOC Transmig machine).

In fact, as I do my welding repairs outside in the open, I did worry about the breeze blowing away the shielding gas. But I've found that, even with a flow rate as low as 6lt/min, welding in the open with pub gas is quite adequate. The weld beads look smooth in short runs, but I tend to keep the nozzle shroud right against the workpiece to get close. Yes the weld runs do cut out and splutter quite a bit but with some clever fiddling of the wire feed it will work quite well. Upping the wire feed (and hence the current input) is always fraught with risk of blowing through the car's thin panels but I've been luckly with finding a good compromise between consistent weld sizzle and just right penetration. On occasions when the breeze got too stiff the shielding gas did dissipate away and I ended up with a few porous weld blobs. But as I weld with my face almost to the workpiece that's a good wind shield.

Cheers to pub CO2 gas
teddykan

CO2 welds great apart from the poor arc stability, but if you can cope with the arc dropping out occasionally and a bit of spatter it's good stuff for welding steel. The arc dropping out for half a second isn't really an issue for weld quality, but if you aren't expecting it you might think you are doing something wrong.

Argoshield adds a little Argon (about 95%) to help with arc stability, and a little oxygen too (for the wetting/smoothness thing) and is a nicer gas to use generally, but it's more expensive than traditional sources of CO2.

CO2 stuff

I've been thinking about this carbon dioxide thing, I guess a lot of us have ended up with a pub bottle on our migs.
Liquid withdrawal increases freezing reg problems, vapour withdrawal is preferred.
I still like to have a bottle of CO2 handy in case of emergencies (unexpectedly run out of argon or start a fire)
It definitely works better for welding if it's preheated (much better) so a long time ago I made a jig to feed my CO2 through a coil of brake pipe heated by a powerful light (which could also be directed to where you're working, or directed onto the regulator in cold weather)
Anyhow, as has been adequetly pointed out, it's basicly bad news when you have to go onto CO2 (though nostalgic) and I need a proper set of fire extinguishers.

Results from using pub gas

Thanks to Malcolm on not knocking pub CO2. I can live with the odd stability problems as I shall dress the welds afterwards where it matters, ie, for cosmetics. For me renting the argon mix is too prohibitively expensive and impracticable, as even the smaller size bottles are a lump to lug around (I shift my kit around working in my parking forecourt just off the road).

Here're some samples of what I can achieve out in the open, on minimal voltage setting and just above minimum wire feed rate on my BOC 130 Migmaster Turbo (a clone of the Cebora 130 unit). The CO2 flow rate was about 5lt/min and there was the odd stiff breeze. One of the best clues to welding performance is the sizzle - when it's right it stops spluttering and enters into a quiet sizzle. Love it!

The weather has been quite kind recently, not too cold to give regulator freezing problems, although I've noticed some very cold condensation on the CO2 outlet nozzle from the bottle.

teddykan

Hitachimad said:

Dont know tbh, we are an air products dealer, so......!

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Hi Hitachimad,

When did Airproducts start charging the same stupid transaction fee that BOC use? Just had to get a refill & I am sure I dint pay one last time.

Justme

PS mind you that was two years ago....

Just set up an account with BOC and have a Y cannister of Argoshield light in my back garden....cant wait!