Antique electrodes...

JBweld · May 10, 2007

Hi Folks,

I started work as an apprentice welder, with the NCB, back in 1967. Unfortunatly, the lure of bigger wage packets elsewhere, means I didn't stick (no pun

) at it and am still an amature.

I can remember the old fella' in charge, showing me all the different types of rods.......some were a hollow rod, he said they were for "blowing boiler rivets out"

The really interesting ones, were some that came out of the back of the cupboard.......these were ancient at the time, I think he said WW II or before.
Instead of the normal coating, these electrodes were wrapped from end to end, with what looked like Asbestos string.

Thing is I can't remember the explanation for this.........age, special purpose or whatever........just be interested to know if anyone else had come across anything like this, or even used any?

Great forum.........cheers all, John...

Drains · May 10, 2007

People who know better than me might suggest the hollow rods are for arc gouging - cue Lorenzo, our resident gougingmeister....

Obviously the asbestos wrapped ones are to save the welder from wearing gloves. :laughing:

Si

MigTig · May 10, 2007

Cant help there, but I believe the hollow Arc rods are for 'Arc Gouging' purposes. Arc gouging changed quite a bit back in the day, using different methods of compressed air to 'blow' the molten metal away, effectivly gouging.
Google will probably reveal more.

Nowadays arc gouging uses a carbon rod, and a special handle that directs compressed air bellow the rod, into the metal pool.

I would love to try it oneday, but its not seen often in the average hobbiests garage :laughing:

Lorenzo does use this quite a lot for removing welds or damaged areas that will be re plated.

MigTig · May 10, 2007

simondrains said:
People who know better than me might suggest the hollow rods are for arc gouging - cue Lorenzo, our resident gougingmeister....

Obviously the asbestos wrapped ones are to save the welder from wearing gloves.

Si

Beat me too it!

I have to say, it seems odd to cover the rod in Asbestos since it is used a fire proof matiriel. :confused:

JBweld · May 10, 2007

Hi Si/Mig Tig.........don't get me wrong, probably wasn't asbestos......just looked like it. The rods were deteriorating, obviously ancient at the time. They just looked like they had been put in a lathe and had string wound onto them.

Can't remember yesterday...........but remember 40ys ago, like it was yesterday...

Drains · May 10, 2007

JBweld said:
Hi Si/Mig Tig.........don't get me wrong, probably wasn't asbestos......just looked like it. The rods were deteriorating, obviously ancient at the time. They just looked like they had been put in a lathe and had string wound onto them.

Can't remember yesterday...........but remember 40ys ago, like it was yesterday...

Hoho - I think I knew they wernt really asbestos covered.... i mean - save the welder from wearing gloves? come on JB!

Drains · May 11, 2007

TechnicAl said:
It WAS asbestos string .

!!!!!

My ignorance knows no bounds!

:laughing:

Si

TechnicAl · May 11, 2007

simondrains said:
!!!!!

My ignorance knows no bounds!

Si

Unfortunately I am old enough to remember

JBweld · May 11, 2007

Thanks Fella's, thought someone would know..........

On the gouging rods, the old chap showed me the electrode holder for the ones he said were for blowing rivets out with..........I seem to think it had a valve on, for connecting to an oxy bottle............would that be the case? I've never seen the gouging process, so I'm not sure.

Thanks all, JB...

JBweld · May 13, 2007

Thanks TechnicAl......great answer, makes sense. Could have been compressed air. Sounds safer anyway...

Cheers, JB...

george waite · Feb 22, 2009

"Oxyarc"

Al
It was oxygen and the process was the old Rockweld "oxyarc" cutting process using flux coated tubular electrodes. It lives on to this day in the form of the "Broco" underwater cutting equipment.

GeorgeB · Feb 23, 2009

JBweld said:
The really interesting ones, were some that came out of the back of the cupboard.......these were ancient at the time, I think he said WW II or before. Instead of the normal coating, these electrodes were wrapped from end to end, with what looked like Asbestos string.........just be interested to know if anyone else had come across anything like this, or even used any?

I have some but can they really be as old as pre-WWII? When did they cease production of this type of rod?...that is if mine are the same as the type you're talking about.

See also:

http://www.weitzlux.com/mesotheliomalawyer/news/weldingrodasbestosnews_156825.html

"First U.S. Jury Verdict Linking Asbestos From Welding Rods to Mesothelioma and Lung Cancer..."

and:

"Welding Fumes Can Be Dangerous"
http://www.braytonlaw.com/practiceareas/welding.htm

louise · Jun 12, 2009

TechnicAl said:
It WAS asbestos string and depending on how old they are it could be blue asbestos, latterly (late 60's early 1970's) it changed to white asbestos before stopping altogether.

The length of wire had a nick at one or both end to provide a lock for the string, the string was then loosely wound around the wire to form a spiral. This was the key to adding the flux. In those days the flux was in the form of a slurry, the asbestos wrapped wire was dipped in the slurry and allowed to dry. Depending on the type of rod they might recieve upto 5 dips before they were finished and baked.

Eventually the extrusion process took over and this method stopped, except for a few hardfacing rods that use tubular core wires. In extrusion the flux is mixed to a plasticine type consistency and extruded on to the lengths of wire.

The hollow tube rods were mostly gouging but there were a few wierd and wonderful processes about.

I am a solicitor acting on behalf of an elderly lady who is suffering from a terminal condition namely Mesothelioma as a result of wrapping asbestos string to the rods and dipping them exactly as you have described above. She was employed by Quasi Arc Welding in Wolverhampton in 1945 till approx 1950.

I would be most grateful if I could obtain further information about this process which would greatly help her case. I hope to hear from you or others who have knowledge of this process.

zardoz · Jun 12, 2009

i have read some horror stories about children playing in enourmous piles of asbestos powder that was "stored" in an open shed near to a factories gates. They used to pretend it was snow!

Ratcatcher · Aug 9, 2010

I remember years back after starting work for me father:he being the boilermaker and me being the newbie welder.I was looking through the rod cupboard and found a box of wound rods,me being me decided to start using them,come on i'd never seen them before.........
When he got back he seriously wasn't impressed,that's when i found out it was bloody asbestos..........I think that was the time i found out i wasn't impressed..........
As Technical Al say's in a previous comment,years ago there was a multitude of weird and wonderful things.........
Also talking to an old timer last week:he say's it's amazing how few old time welders there are,that got me thinking about how many old friends i've lost.
So what actually was in the rods of old?.
Makes me wonder...............................................................

Rat.

Ratcatcher · Aug 21, 2010

T.A,

Can't argue with the above and nobody can say they love the fumes,well i've never had a fume junky hanging round with a rolled up twenty quid note......
But you mentioned Manganese:if i never see,hear or have to weld that again i'll be happy...........Very happy...........
I carried out a lot of welding of manganese for the cement works and learnt on day one what it's like....
Atleast things in the ventilation department have improved greatly compared to even twenty year ago........

Rat.

zeppelin builder · Mar 25, 2020

Drains said:
!!!!!

My ignorance knows no bounds!

Si

ive heard the stories from old riveters who
fell into the new fangled welding process
defineately asbestos! i think it would just burn away a bit slower than the core
another one was just a light lime wash coating

Gareth0123 · Mar 25, 2020

Didn't the Elephant man; John Merrick die from complications arising from asbestosis after working in a factory coating early arc welding electrodes with asbestos.

There is some information asbestos, especially blue asbestos used in welding rods here; www.asbestos.net/asbestos/products/welding-rods/

nickk · Mar 25, 2020

Why are threads deleted here,surely they’re informative,particularly concerning that solicitors case.

Barking Mat · Mar 26, 2020

Ooh old thread, rings some bells.

Antique electrodes...

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