prime - sealer?? - paint

steveo3002 · Jan 8, 2012

the way ive always painted cars , and seen everyone else do the same is
etch/epoxy , then high build , sand that up ands straight on with the paint

ive been watching the u.s hot rod type shows and they seem to prime, sand then use a wet on wet sealer before paint

whats the point with this ? never seen any need for it myself but willing to learn a new trick ..the way im seeing it thats another chance for added peel before the gloss goes on

langy · Jan 8, 2012

Sometimes they use an epoxy sealer tinted to the topcoat colour so the stonechips don't show so badly, I do the same.

steveo3002 said:
the way ive always painted cars , and seen everyone else do the same is
etch/epoxy , then high build , sand that up ands straight on with the paint

ive been watching the u.s hot rod type shows and they seem to prime, sand then use a wet on wet sealer before paint

whats the point with this ? never seen any need for it myself but willing to learn a new trick ..the way im seeing it thats another chance for added peel before the gloss goes on

steveo3002 · Jan 8, 2012

right..we just used colour matched primer anyway

langy · Jan 8, 2012

The tinted epoxy is much more resistant to chipping than the hi build, thats why its used.

steveo3002 said:
right..we just used colour matched primer anyway

mm289 · Jan 8, 2012

Just reading "advanced custom painting techniques" by Jon Kosmoski (christmas pressie

)

Nice read, quite enjoying as I have had no "formal" training.

His approach on bare metal is:

1. do filler work
2. use a spray filler which I assume is like a high build primer?
3. 2k epoxy primer
4. Sealer
5. Basecoat
6. Clearcoat

(he also applies kandy coat between basecoat and clear but thats probably beyond my needs :cool:

)

Interestingly he says he doesn't use any etch primers anymore, 2k epoxy much better - which I believe is also the way Langy, you do it?

I was going to post about this as I wondered what the purpose of the sealer was and how much of this is because he is doing mega custom paint as opposed to regular, but as you have posted the question already steve, I will just jump into this thread if thats ok?

Cheers,

MM

langy · Jan 8, 2012

mm289 said:
Just reading "advanced custom painting techniques" by Jon Kosmoski (christmas pressie )

Nice read, quite enjoying as I have had no "formal" training.

His approach on bare metal is:

1. do filler work
2. use a spray filler which I assume is like a high build primer?
3. 2k epoxy primer
4. Sealer
5. Basecoat
6. Clearcoat

(he also applies kandy coat between basecoat and clear but thats probably beyond my needs )

Interestingly he says he doesn't use any etch primers anymore, 2k epoxy much better - which I believe is also the way Langy, you do it?

I was going to post about this as I wondered what the purpose of the sealer was and how much of this is because he is doing mega custom paint as opposed to regular, but as you have posted the question already steve, I will just jump into this thread if thats ok?

Cheers,

MM

No the spray filler is much thicker than normal hi build primer, Lechlar do it under the name of Polyfan Rush, its good stuff for getting a panel gun barrel straight but there are short comings with it in that it sucks moisture from the air like a sponge and can return as micro blistering, i personally won't use it these days because of that problem, my painting friends are of the same opinion.
As for Kandy coats they can only go between the basecoat and the clear.

if you try and chip Epoxy you will find it much harder than normal 2K primer.

While Jon Kosmoski is a top painter it don't mean the states are the pinnacle of painting, The best paint winners at Pebble Beach for the last few years were painted in the UK by a friend of mine.

REv · Jan 8, 2012

Interesting stuff! So what is "sealer" then? Are the pebble beach cars painted in the Essex, East Anglia area?

langy · Jan 8, 2012

I'm not sure what they use but i would guess at it being an Epoxy primer really, they refer to it as Epoxy primer/sealer in the US, I just use normal 2K Epoxy primer and never had a problem.

REv said:
Interesting stuff! So what is "sealer" then? Are the pebble beach cars painted in the Essex, East Anglia area?

steveo3002 · Jan 8, 2012

i think they just use differant terms for what we use ..well in the shows anyway

i think sealer = primer

anyone notice they never use airfed masks either? see quite alot of shonky work in the shows really

langy · Jan 8, 2012

Its TV, its not real !!!

steveo3002 said:
i think they just use differant terms for what we use ..well in the shows anyway

i think sealer = primer

anyone notice they never use airfed masks either? see quite alot of shonky work in the shows really

mm289 · Jan 8, 2012

langy said:
Its TV, its not real !!!

Ain't that the truth!

The other challenge with his book is it was written in 2003 and I guess stuff may have moved on a bit technology wise - but I like reading fairly widely around subjects like this anyway as you broaden the knowledge base.

Having said which, I am always telling my kids wisdom = knowledge PLUS experience, so just going on google or looking something up in a book isn't the whole answer

The bit I found interesting was just another voice confirming the benefits of epoxy primer as a base rather than etch & hi build.

He uses it ontop of the spray filler though, whereas I tend to put it straight onto bare metal and then use a hi build on top, which I guess is what you are doing Langy? - thinking about it, it is probably one of your old threads that pointed me in that direction anyway :clapping:

MM

langy · Jan 8, 2012

mm289 said:
Ain't that the truth!

The other challenge with his book is it was written in 2003 and I guess stuff may have moved on a bit technology wise - but I like reading fairly widely around subjects like this anyway as you broaden the knowledge base.

Having said which, I am always telling my kids wisdom = knowledge PLUS experience, so just going on google or looking something up in a book isn't the whole answer

The bit I found interesting was just another voice confirming the benefits of epoxy primer as a base rather than etch & hi build.

He uses it ontop of the spray filler though, whereas I tend to put it straight onto bare metal and then use a hi build on top, which I guess is what you are doing Langy? - thinking about it, it is probably one of your old threads that pointed me in that direction anyway

MM

I would of thought he would be working in a booth or very dry atmosphere so the spray filler wouldn't be so much of a problem, Yes epoxy can go over virtually anything.
I like the epoxy on bare metal and then do the filler work and whack on a couple more coats, that way everything is sealed from every thing else.
My mate paints mega expensive cars like Pebble beach entrants and he uses the same process as i do, he taught me to paint.

I'm not a fan of Google i'm afraid, too much of the info out there is incorrect or not written properly, you can't beat experience in my book !!!

.

Raf · Jan 9, 2012

i do the same, epoxy on bare metal, filler, hi build then paint.

sealer is the US is (im fairly sure) just a thinned out primer (either HB or Epoxy).

langy · Jan 9, 2012

Raf said:
i do the same, epoxy on bare metal, filler, hi build then paint.

sealer is the US is (im fairly sure) just a thinned out primer (either HB or Epoxy).

It wouldn't be thinned out hi build as that's porous so wouldn't be a good sealer, I will ask my mate in the states as I'm now intrigued

langy · Jan 10, 2012

Got a reply this morning from my mate in SoCal, He said the sealer they use is Epoxy primer with 20% thinner added instead of 10%.

mm289 · Jan 13, 2012

Cheers Langy, makes it easier as having to stock less different products, just use the same epoxy primer as a sealer as well :clapping:

BTW, do you buy your epoxy primer ready tinted or have a stock and add tints as needed?

Cheers,

MM

langy · Jan 13, 2012

I buy it ready tinted, my supplier has a mixing scheme so can do any colour i require.

mm289 said:
Cheers Langy, makes it easier as having to stock less different products, just use the same epoxy primer as a sealer as well

BTW, do you buy your epoxy primer ready tinted or have a stock and add tints as needed?

Cheers,

MM

prime - sealer?? - paint

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