Machine Tool Lubrication (From "Show Us Your Lathe")

I have used straight 30wt oil on mine. See if you can find non-detergent oil. I use Mobil Vactra and Veloctite synthetic way and spindle oils on mine.

Auto oils have lots of additives over a straight oil. Non-detergent auto oils are supposed to be closer.

My lathe probably never had the spindle pulleys oiled by the previous owner. The oil point looks like a set screw so probably missed. Had to replace the pulley bushings.

I use chainsaw bar and chain oil on the gears. Works well and does not get sticky like lubraplate. 50/50 STP/oil mix is supposed to work well too.

I use indexed carbide tools on mine. Carbide has come a long way in the last few years. I get a better finish on the new carbide tools than HSS. Partly due to the newer coatings.

You can get a holder set fairly cheap (I make mine, takes about 10 minutes.) Insers can be expensive but I keep an eye on ebay and pick up surplus packs of 10. Usually get then for about $1/ea.

Forget the brazed carbide cutters. They are usually very cheap and don't have any relief angle. That makes them require more force and don't work as well on these lightweight lathes.

I try and get inserts with the correct relief angle and a chip breaker. That resembles the desired angles that you are supposed to grind HSS bits to.

robinj66 said:

Thanks for all the replies.

I have been through the Atlas manual and oiled/greased all 28 points. Hope it's ok to use 5W/30 as I didn't have any SAE 10.

Not sure I'm up to grinding my own tools yet so i'll check out some of the recommendations

Funny you should say most of the tools are oversize for my machine - I somehow feel more comfortable with bigger tools (what have I just said ) - my best results have been with the 3/4 inch round tip tool. At the moment I'm just using odd bits of steel that i have managed to scrounge from local workshops

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Yes, as mentioned, it's not a good idea to use automotive oils in machine tools, especially older ones. They have additives (is how they are multigrade), which in some cases can attack and eat away certain compositions of bronze that may be used in bushes, gearing, etc. It's not definite, but it is possible.

Good oils to use are the Hyspin range from Castrol. They are straight mineral hydraulic oils, designed for machinery. An equivalent to SAE 10 or 15 would be Hyspin 32, which is an ISO 32 rated oil. Use this wherever an SAE 10 oil is recommended, other than maybe the reservoir that feeds the slides (often by a hand-operated pump/oiler), which can be Castrol Magna 68 Slideway Oil (it's ISO 68, equal to about SAE 25.)

You can buy them here:

https://www.mscdirect.co.uk/CGI/INSRHM

Hyspin 32 is a lovely pale golden straight oil, quite thin and suitable for gearing and bearings, including the headstock, quick-change gearbox, apron, etc.

Magna 68 (there is I think a plain Hypsin 68 but without slideway additives) is a super oil for clinging to slides and ways, without being tacky. It's still suitable for gearing and bearings. My Milling Machine uses ISO 68 grade throughout and I use the Magna 68. It's directly equivalent to Mobil Vactra No 2.

Feanor said:

Yes, as mentioned, it's not a good idea to use automotive oils in machine tools, especially older ones. They have additives (is how they are multigrade), which in some cases can attack and eat away certain compositions of bronze that may be used in bushes, gearing, etc. It's not definite, but it is possible.

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As far as I recall, none of the engine oils are a problem in that regard. It's the likes of some of the more modern diff & gearbox oils which can tend to attack phosphor bronze bushes. Even if it is the case, any mineral or semi-synth oil should always be safe to use.

GL5 gear oils can affect bronze bushes, the GL4 version doesn't and is recommended for older vehicles. Given the price of some of these special oils and the fact that they seem to come in 20 litres minimum I think I'll be using EP90 GL4 in my drill.

I use hydraulic oil in my headstock, quickchange box and apron, but for slideways I use way oil.

Same here with a geared head, gearbox and geared apron i use Hydraulic 68, Hydraulic 32 better on the slides.

Too thick an oil on the slides gives errors.

In the older Harrison 140/L5 etc use ATF

hareng said:

Same here with a geared head, gearbox and geared apron i use Hydraulic 68, Hydraulic 32 better on the slides.

Too thick an oil on the slides gives errors.

In the older Harrison 140/L5 etc use ATF

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That's an interesting thought about errors due to thicker oils.

My Holbrook specifies an ISO 5 oil for the headstock (Shell Tellus 11 - no longer available) which is incredibly thin. This enables the main headstock bearings to be micro-adjusted. There was never oil in it this thin when I obtained it from the Royal Ordnance Factory. Some advice I have been given suggests the main bearing may have been deliberately backed off (half a thou?) because of multi-operators using the machine. Or it may just have worn. After years of using a good quality 15/40 motor oil (never any problems) I am now on Hyspin 32.

An ISO 22 - 32 oil is specified for the qcgb, clutch housing and apron, so I'm ok there too. I do put in some ISO 68 in the apron because this incorporates the hand-pump oiler for the ways and slides, though before I added it there was still a quantity of ISO 32 in there ......... so there's currently a mixture.

I will consider what you said about using too much 68 in there.

I have a chart somewhere that gives rates of dilution with paraffin (kerosene) in ISO 32 oil to bring down the viscosity to lower levels. I think 80% paraffin with 20% ISO 32 oil gives a viscosity around the ISO 5 mark. This worries me and I've never considered it, though I do intend to have the headstock cover off soon and have a look and maybe a tweak with those massive bronze bearings in there.

I have a surface grinder that runs happily on 2/3 paraffin and 1/3 ISO 32 in the main spindle reservoir. It's old but will still grind down to half a thou or less.

If price wasnt a consideration i would go for a better oil.
Been using the Smith and Allan T68 & T32 for almost two years around £13 to 15 delivered then. Believe me i am hard going 1 week with me probably equivalent to a lifetime for mr average.

It would be interesting what Smart and Brown recommend for the beds.
Its on the Harrison spec list some where about different viscosities affecting tolerances. You can definately feel drag on slides with 68 as against a topped up apron pump with 32 in it.
Use T68 in geared mill head as well but do notice frothing through the window same as the stuff that was originally in.

Probably made a mistake with Hydraulic 68 in gear box, needs to be thicker.

Machine Tool Lubrication

From the "Show Us Your Lathe" thread.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=32978

I reckon this is a subject in its own right.

rtbcomp said:

I reckon this is a subject in its own right.

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Good choice. Even though it's one of those subjects which will have more opinions than any political debate, it'll be handy to have this type of info in its own thread.

I've done some reviewing of a few posts in the Holbrook Forum, where quite a bit of research has been done regarding oils originally recommended by the company, modern equivalents and thoughts on oil type, additives and so on.

Here are some thoughts and observations:


......a little googling which resulted in a very interesting conversation with Richard Hallett of Hallett oils (http://www.hallettoil.co.uk/) (01902 710783); here's a summary that people might find useful:

- he confirmed that Shell Tellus 11 = ISO 5 and that Tellus 27 = ISO 32
- he agreed that ISO 5 was unnecessarily thin for a spindle running at a max speed of 2000RPM
- he suggested using ISO 32 in both applications and diluting the
spindle oil with paraffin (approx ISO 3) if the headstock runs too warm or if there's too much spindle drag
- he can add additional additives to ensure that the dilution doesn't lead to an additive-deficient oil

- Dilution ratios (ISO 32/ISO 3) give the following results:
... 95/5=ISO 27
... 80/20=ISO 18
... 50/50=ISO 8

..............................

Don't use an oil with EP additives (like Hypoid gear oil) as these attack copper bearing alloys like bronze and brass. Most Hydraulic oils are straight mineral oil with variously anti-wear, anti-corrosion and anti-frothing additives so should be perfectly OK.

..................................

I should also mention that engine oils are not so good for non engine applications as they contain detergents / dispersants that keep particles (metal particles and oil decomposition products) in the oil suspended. That's good if you have an oil filter to take them out but not so good otherwise where it would be better to have them drop to form a sediment in quiet corners of the chamber rather than re-circulate through the bearings.

.....................................


For once I have to disagree with T - DON'T add Molyslip or similar,
Molybdenum Disulphide isn't compatible with "red metals", i.e. brasses and
bronzes, and will attack the surface of the spindle bearings... I believe it's a
reaction between the sulphur and copper, although I'm not sure quite how rapidly it takes place? There are a few bronze-compatible additives, most seem to be teflon based from what I remember.



There then follows a to and fro debate about the Molyslip comments with people pointint out long usage with no problems. As also noted, many vehicles and their gearboxes used (and still use) bronze and copper alloy components.

Here's an oil comparison chart:

http://www.synlube.com/images/viscosity_table_2.jpg

Correct Oil

I am always prepared to 'help myself' and search for info but googling has left me no wiser.

Warco lathe (the hobby size one) - what oil is best to use in the head gearbox?

The present stuff appears reddish and stinks, I suspect it's hydraulic oil of some unkown visocity, googling tends to suggest that's the correct oil but others are stating a good synthetic oil is better.

Warco sell the so called proper stuff, simply called 'head oil' but won't send by post so that's not much help.

I want to replace it with the best stuff I can, for two reasons..I like to look after my stuff and I have read there can be a significant reduction in gear noise with some oils.

Cheers Folks

I think the stuff we use at work is shell tellus oil. That's a fairly sticky lubricating oil for gearboxes and the like.

Hello Steve,

my Colchester manual specifies Shell Tellus 37, maybe Google will give you a specification or alternative?

Alec

First two replies and the same oil mentioned...looking good so far
Cheers Guys

I've merged Steve's thread with the "Machine Tolls Lubrication Thread."

Feanor said:

There are a few bronze-compatible additives, most seem to be teflon based from what I remember.

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Personally, Teflon based, (or similar), stuff I'd generally avoid unless specifically applied directly to a surface as a mere surface lubrication layer. From any lubricants I've used in the past containing that stuff, there's always seems to be quite a lot of settling over fairly short periods of time.

Plus, from debates I've seen concerning its use in vehicular applications, it also seems that the flakes having a clogging effect is a theoretical possibility, (can't recall ever seeing evidence to suggest one way or the other though), although having seen the stuff when it settles, it wouldn't surprise me.

rtbcomp said:

I've merged Steve's thread with the "Machine Tolls Lubrication Thread."

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Thank you..believe it or not I searched Google and never thought of searching here.. duh..old age is my excuse

It's taking its "Toll" on me too!