- Thread starter mr paint
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julieanncharters
Member
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- 210
1050A welded with 4043 would do the job unless you want to pay extra for 5 series sheet which is a bit stronger.
As said nothing wrong with 1050 (commercially pure ally) although i'd recommend using 1050 filler wire over 4043... the higher strength of the later is of no benefit and, more importantly, it's noticably less ductile. 4043 is the better choice for dissimilar welds like joining a 6xxx series tube/machined fittings to the tank skin.
3103-H14 and/or 5005-H34 are better choices in that they're a tad stronger than 1050-H14 while being virtually as formable and still work hardening relatively slowly. Downside is they're harder to find and often cost a chunk more as a result
5251-H22 is the common suspect for something stronger, downside is (like many of the 5xxx series) it work hardens pretty quickly which can be a bigger deal if by 'metal forming' you mean putting some proper shape into it like http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/album.php?albumid=1377 for example. If you mean simple folds then just watch grain direction when laying out bends
FWIW this is how the OE manufacturers go about it... http://www.alueurope.eu/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/AAM-Applications-Power-train-5-Fuel-System.pdf the 5754-O mentioned for tanks isn't something likely to be commonly available- it's what 5 bar treadplate is made from (different temper though, not annealed) but i don't think i've ever seen it available as plain sheet
3103-H14 and/or 5005-H34 are better choices in that they're a tad stronger than 1050-H14 while being virtually as formable and still work hardening relatively slowly. Downside is they're harder to find and often cost a chunk more as a result
5251-H22 is the common suspect for something stronger, downside is (like many of the 5xxx series) it work hardens pretty quickly which can be a bigger deal if by 'metal forming' you mean putting some proper shape into it like http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/album.php?albumid=1377 for example. If you mean simple folds then just watch grain direction when laying out bends
FWIW this is how the OE manufacturers go about it... http://www.alueurope.eu/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/AAM-Applications-Power-train-5-Fuel-System.pdf the 5754-O mentioned for tanks isn't something likely to be commonly available- it's what 5 bar treadplate is made from (different temper though, not annealed) but i don't think i've ever seen it available as plain sheet
pedrobedro
Man at Matalan
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As above standard 1050 half hard but 2.5mm seems a bit of overkill, 16g or 1.6mm will make a strong tank, bend easier and put a couple of baffles in for stiffness and to stop fuel surge.
whensparksfly
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anyone got pictures of the baffle and swirl pot systems in some of the alloy tanks
Forgot i put this post up guys sorry !
pic of the tank to be made
its formed in 4 parts
2 sides
front and small 100mm lip
rear and base
reason i was doing 2.5 i as i have not done alloy in about 5+ years and we are now using a new tig so gives me a bit more meat to play with BUT if thinner would make better Please advise
we have 5356 filler rod will this be suitable if using 1050 h14?
Thanks again for the advice
tommy
pic of the tank to be made
its formed in 4 parts
2 sides
front and small 100mm lip
rear and base
reason i was doing 2.5 i as i have not done alloy in about 5+ years and we are now using a new tig so gives me a bit more meat to play with BUT if thinner would make better Please advise
we have 5356 filler rod will this be suitable if using 1050 h14?
Thanks again for the advice
tommy
5356 will physically work, it's got better ductility (and strength although that's beside the point when welding 1050) than 4043 but is less resistant to solidification cracking*. A pack of 1050 wire ranges from less than a score for 1kg upto about £30 for 2.5kg depending on dia. 5356 makes more sense if using 5251 for the tank
Obviously where and how it's mounted effects things (likelyhood of impact damage in a crash etc) but i wouldn't go thinner for that unless you change the way you make it... outside corner joints make great stress risers and are more likely to split if the tank takes a hit than radiused edges with butt welds of flanged joints. From a fatigue POV the weight of fuel sloshing around makes outside corners less than ideal but that's largly negated with foam
Personally i'd either radius all the sharp edges and make it from two pieces (one piece for the bead rolled sides and panel with the sender/filler in it) or flange the bead rolled panels and make it from 4 pieces (assuming a 2.5m sheet isn't long enough to make the body from a single piece)
* Article ignores pure ally as it about hot cracking of welds in aluminium alloys... http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/knowledge/qa/How-to-Avoid-Cracking-in-Aluminum-Alloys.cfm 1050 (being pure ally is not an alloy [/pedantic]) is effectively 0% Mg or Si so the filler wire is diluted more than if welding an alloy containg Mg or Si...
Obviously where and how it's mounted effects things (likelyhood of impact damage in a crash etc) but i wouldn't go thinner for that unless you change the way you make it... outside corner joints make great stress risers and are more likely to split if the tank takes a hit than radiused edges with butt welds of flanged joints. From a fatigue POV the weight of fuel sloshing around makes outside corners less than ideal but that's largly negated with foam
Personally i'd either radius all the sharp edges and make it from two pieces (one piece for the bead rolled sides and panel with the sender/filler in it) or flange the bead rolled panels and make it from 4 pieces (assuming a 2.5m sheet isn't long enough to make the body from a single piece)
A few have posted before... 4th and 7th results and the 2nd on pg 2 for example
* Article ignores pure ally as it about hot cracking of welds in aluminium alloys... http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/knowledge/qa/How-to-Avoid-Cracking-in-Aluminum-Alloys.cfm 1050 (being pure ally is not an alloy [/pedantic]) is effectively 0% Mg or Si so the filler wire is diluted more than if welding an alloy containg Mg or Si...
Bend against the grain, ideally with a bend radius of at least one metal thickness. When i'm using a folder that has a knife edge clamping bar (for crisp bends on thin sheet) i normally fold a narrow strip and leave it in the machine to give a nicer radius- fairly obviously the hold down beam set back and/or the bending leaf height need adjusting to compensate
