Alternative gas bottle and gas in the south.

beavy69 · Sep 15, 2008

Hi, a newbie here, did a fair bit of welding at school and finally bought myself a Clarke 151TE for various automotive projects, having looked at the guides on here. It comes with a small CO2 refill and regulator but also an Argon IR2A 2-Gauge Industrial Regulator.

May be a stupid question but could I use and empty blue butane bottle from a BBQ (obviously ensuring its well aired butane being flammable and all)?

If not are all the larger (non-refill) bottles a standard fitting (IR2A??)

And does anyone know of a place to get argon/co2 mix refills from near Bournemouth/in the south?

Thanks,

7im.

fingers99 · Sep 15, 2008

You can't use a butane bottle. Lots of reasons, but for one, it simply won't stand the pressure.

Air Products now seem to be using a different fitting.

Best bet is ask around -- lots of people doing boat stuff down there. And failing that, go to the Air Liquide site and find a local dealer (tend to be cheaper on rentals than the others).

Wozzaaah · Sep 15, 2008

beavy69 said:
May be a stupid question but could I use and empty blue butane bottle from a BBQ (obviously ensuring its well aired butane being flammable and all)?

How many more times will this crop up on here?
The answer is always the same;
The right gases in the right cylinders at all times, it's the only safe way!

knoba · Sep 15, 2008

Could be a sticky!

andypocock · Sep 15, 2008

beavy69 said:
And does anyone know of a place to get argon/co2 mix refills from near Bournemouth/in the south?

Mig Tig & Arc in Portsmouth unless somebody knows somebody in Southampton. The only welding that goes on in Bournemouth is Tigging up the odd zimmer frame

Andy

MarkG · Sep 15, 2008

andypocock said:
Mig Tig & Arc in Portsmouth unless somebody knows somebody in Southampton. The only welding that goes on in Bournemouth is Tigging up the odd zimmer frame

Andy

RH Davey Welding Supplies are an Air Liquide agent in Quayside Road, Southampton.

They deliver too, but not sure now far west they go.

beavy69 · Sep 15, 2008

Shutup Andy Bournemouth is amazing!

I knew it was a stupid question, sorry peeps theres always one lol

Thanks for the supplies tips all

English Steve · Sep 16, 2008

Does anyone know if James Bros welding supplies are still going in Eastleigh? I bought my Cebora Pocket Turbo from them around 1988 - great service and very helpful back then. The Cebora is still going strong 20 yrs later :hug:

beavy69 · Sep 16, 2008

Hey Steve, James Bros do seem to be still on the map, although I see people giving two different numbers for them if you wanna try them: 02380612501 + 02380862693.

With regard to my bottle search: I have found a few pubs with their CO2 bottles for sale. Would they be ok to use with argon too as a mix?

And aside from being male or female, do the fitments of all the larger bottles like this vary or are they all IR2A???

fingers99 · Sep 16, 2008

Problem with pub bottles is getting them filled. Fitting is different to Argon, but you can purchase an adaptor. No one is going to put argon/CO2 mix in a pub CO2 bottle -- welding gases are at a much higher pressure, they risk instant decapitation.

English Steve · Sep 16, 2008

Hey Steve, James Bros do seem to be still on the map, although I see people giving two different numbers for them if you wanna try them: 02380612501 + 02380862693.

Thanks Beavy. I'm going up that way next week so may call in to see what they've got on offer.

Regarding the gas, I'll probably get flamed for this but, if you can get hold of pub bottles why not just run with straight CO2. :scared:

I know it's not theoretically ideal, but it does work for a lot of people.

Rusty · Sep 16, 2008

andypocock said:
Mig Tig & Arc in Portsmouth unless somebody knows somebody in Southampton. The only welding that goes on in Bournemouth is Tigging up the odd zimmer frame

Andy

beavy69 · Sep 16, 2008

Yeah my welder came with a mini CO2 bottle but Argon mix gives a better weld.

From what I can see Argon is slightly less dense than CO2 at standard temp so why couldn't one use a pub CO2 bottle for an Argon mix, does Agon vastly change density with temperature or is it that the regulator connection is a different size? Or could I use one??

Wozzaaah · Sep 16, 2008

Again - the right gas in the right cylinder at all times!
Why do you think cylinders are colour coded and have different regulator fittings?

We really need a sticky on gas safety, it's the only way to stop the same topic being discussed over and over again.
Anyone in their right mind won't refill a cylinder with a gas that it's not designed for.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it's illegal and just plain wrong!

malcolm · Sep 16, 2008

CO2 bottles are low pressure. CO2 is stored as a liquid rather than as a gas, so it just sloshes around in the bottle. Pressure in the bottle is about 70 bar. Argon mix is stored as a gas at a pressure of over 200 bar. I think what Wozzaaah is trying to say is filling a bottle designed for 70 bar up to 220 bar might make it go bang in much the same way as a bomb might go bang. Even using CO2 regs on argon bottles is bad (that bang thing again).

Despite that inspired theory I don't have the knowledge to write a gas safety sticky. Can anyone write such a thing, or should we try collaborative writing - someone start a thread and others can copy the post and correct or add to it until we are happy.

beavy69 · Sep 16, 2008

thanks for explaining that malcolm now I understand. So can anyone tell me; are there different bottles for a mixture to just pure argon and what colour are they?

malcolm · Sep 16, 2008

Colours probably still vary between suppliers, though there is a new European standard for colours covered (with pictures) on http://www.bocindustrial.co.uk/boci...y_options/Industrial_Gas_Cylinder_Colours.asp

Wozzaaah · Sep 16, 2008

I was also trying to say that filling any cylinder with a gas that it didn't originally contain should not be done under any circumstances, imagine if theoretically you had an argon cylinder filled with acetylene or a breathing oxygen cylinder filled with co2, it just doesn't bear thinking about.
We all begrudge paying for a cylinder of gas which sits unused for most of the time but unfortunately we have to put up with it. There are non-rental companies about, pay for the cylinder up front then pay for each refill, no monthly fees. Adams gas is one, I think energas is another, there's also a member on here called gasman who does a similar deal. Search the forum and you'll find out more about it.

Paul. · Sep 16, 2008

BOC offer a lot of safety and technical information here, if you hold a BOC account you can register on the website for even more, A compressed gas cylinder is probably the most dangerous component of a welding setup, yet people still try to get gas on the cheap, A size Y argon cylinder costs about £68 per year to rent, probably less than you pay for your newspapers, and for that you get a tested cylinder, technical backup if you need it, and the option to change cylinder types or temporarily add to your cylinder holding (at a cost) if you need it. Oh and before anyone asks, no I don't work for BOC,

Chrissi · Sep 18, 2008

There is an AP agent called Tailored Panels in West Moores they deliver to Bournemouth most days.

Alternative gas bottle and gas in the south.

New Member

Member

The wizard of woz

...break a leg!

Member

S.P.A. Welding Supplies - Lancing

New Member

Senior Bumpkin

New Member

Member

Senior Bumpkin

Member

New Member

The wizard of woz

& Clementine the Cat

New Member

& Clementine the Cat

The wizard of woz

Moderator

Willing to help if I can.