Craftsman 12x36 lathe - A steal of a deal

As mentioned in the lathe thread, here is what my deal came with:

Lathe:


38" between centers, spindle bore can handle just over 3/4 stock

Toolposts, tooling:


Original tool post, quick change tool holders, all kinds of tool bits. BTW, the toolholders have 3/8" carbide indexed tools in them.

Accessories:


Two chucks, face place, 2 lathe dogs, milling attachment, ball turning tool, extra main pulley, Collete adapter.

Gears:


Supposedly a complete set.

Headstock:



Supposedly has Timken bearings too.

There is a stand made from angle iron and C-channel that I did not get pics of. It bolts to the floor

I felt so guilty leaving with all the stuff. The guy said I was the first responder to the ad and he had tons more replies. He could have sold the lathe for almost 2x the price with no tooling.

Actually, I bought it for the original new price. The lathe was $339 in 1935. With tooling was probably near $500 in 1935 dollars. Add 70 years of inflation and even with the age was still a great deal.

The guy was happy though. He is getting a big TurnMaster Lathe and needed the space (don't know if I have the name right.)

I still can't help feeling guilty, happy as a clam though

A lovely piece of kit you've pick up there.

My lathe is 60 odd years old and is still so smoth that you can hardly feel it run. I've not used anything modern that I like nearly so much.

I do like the modern tooling with renewable tips though!

We have Swarf



Oooooooh.

9/16 12L14 hex stock. Cut effortlessly and almost silent. A small amount of clatter where the pulleys lock to the spindle gear via a pin. A bit of play in the pin. Countershaft looks to have a bit of play, but works smooth.

This is a new experience. My crappy dunlap wood feed too fast even in the biggest gear. Was like cutting 120 TPI threads. So I usually did it manually.

This feed sloooow. Took probably 2 minutes to do a pass (2"). Manual feed is real fast, too fast for a sharp cutter. Looked to be turning 200 RPM without the back gear. May move up pulley a bit as I turn small stuff.

Came with the "modern tooling with removable tips." They are real nice, I have a tiny set for my Dunlap.

There is some damage. The main belt cover was broken off at one time. Cast support has been brazed back on. No big deal. Need to shim mounting bolt to get it square.

I damaged it though. Was in my trailer and worried about supporting rear as it is back heavy because of heavy countershaft and motor. Backing down my driveway, tranny slipped out of 4wd low (driveway is real steep) and slammed on brakes. It tipped on its front. Broke the handles off the cross and compound slides .

Now the hard work. Cleaning the garage and making room for it. Floor is not level, so will need shimming/leveling.

Have a question for you experts. My Dunlap has a worn spindle; 0.003" down on the sleeve bearing area. Crappy lathe has 0.550" hollow spindle on a 6" lathe. I was lucky to have an un-bent spindle. It flexes when doing cutoffs.

I'd like to turn a new spindle. I am considering 1" tool steel (turned down to 0.550 with 1" shoulder for chuck.) The other option is stainless. I think either would be stronger than the stock especially if I don't center bore it.

Have seen the tool steel on Ebay for a reasonable price on small lengths. I have tuned the adapter on the Dunlap for the 4" chuck and it was a pain to do (tool steel.) Even with the back gear, I wanted to go slower on the weak lathe.

This should have no problem with it. I am considering stainless as it would not rust and shoudl be bit easier to turn. I thnk it would still be stronger than the stock spindle. That was "hardened" but the way it flexes I think it was only surface hardened. Seems to bend like mild steel.

Jugs reply in (bold.)

shenion said:

Oooooooh.

9/16 12L14 hex stock. Cut effortlessly and almost silent. A small amount of clatter where the pulleys lock to the spindle gear via a pin. A bit of play in the pin. Countershaft looks to have a bit of play, but works smooth.

(Make a new pin cos any rattling will give you a bad finish. You may find that the hole is slightly oval, so you could make a bush and locktite in place.)

This is a new experience. My crappy dunlap wood feed too fast even in the biggest gear. Was like cutting 120 TPI threads. So I usually did it manually.

Have a question for you experts. My Dunlap has a worn spindle; 0.003" down on the sleeve bearing area. Crappy lathe has 0.550" hollow spindle on a 6" lathe. I was lucky to have an un-bent spindle. It flexes when doing cutoffs.

I'd like to turn a new spindle. I am considering 1" tool steel (turned down to 0.550 with 1" shoulder for chuck.) The other option is stainless. I think either would be stronger than the stock especially if I don't center bore it.

Have seen the tool steel on Ebay for a reasonable price on small lengths. I have tuned the adapter on the Dunlap for the 4" chuck and it was a pain to do (tool steel.) Even with the back gear, I wanted to go slower on the weak lathe.

This should have no problem with it. I am considering stainless as it would not rust and shoudl be bit easier to turn. I thnk it would still be stronger than the stock spindle. That was "hardened" but the way it flexes I think it was only surface hardened. Seems to bend like mild steel.

Click to expand...

I suggest that now you have a really nice lathe you put the crap Dunlap on Craigs list. A 1/2"dia spindle is far too small for a 6" lathe, and a solid shaft will bend as much. Alternatively, is there any way you can put larger bearings in the headstock to take a larger shaft?

That Atlas looks a cracker. I had one many years ago, but stupidly I sold it to fund another project, learnt my lesson, so now I always hang on to my tool.

Nice wide bed, reminds me of a 1920s Mellor I used to have!

They just don't make them like they used to (the words 'precision' and 'China' should never be uttered in the same sentence...)

jugs said:

Jugs reply in (bold.)



I suggest that now you have a really nice lathe you put the crap Dunlap on Craigs list. A 1/2"dia spindle is far too small for a 6" lathe, and a solid shaft will bend as much. Alternatively, is there any way you can put larger bearings in the headstock to take a larger shaft?

That Atlas looks a cracker. I had one many years ago, but stupidly I sold it to fund another project, learnt my lesson, so now I always hang on to my tool.

Click to expand...

That is the plan, but don't want to sell it with a chattering spindle.

The headstock is very thin, only 3/8" around bearings; so, no way to put in larger bearings. Before finding this lathe, I was thinking of making my own headstock out of steel plate (it is a simple box.) Then have someone with a mill accurately drill for two 1" bearings.

Have read the Atlas lathe operation manual (very good with all kinds of tables on threading, metallurgy etc.). It describes SS as having much more thermal expansion than regular steel. So I guess SS is out as a spindle.

Will order a foot of tool steel, should be just under $20 with shipping; worth it as I should be able to get more on the old crappy Dunlap if it has all new rotating parts.

Heh, just found the parts list that came with the lathe. The most expensive part is a new headstock: $16.50 Found an inflation calculator and that is about $200.

Scott i made a new spindle for my 109 20 years ago. I used a Dremel and a cut off wheel to make the woodriff cuts in the spindle. Some 109's have more than 1 key i think they have 3 of them....Bob


And another thing, i have a new headstock made for a 109 for a 1" spindle sitting on my shelf in the garage. Then i put it back to orig years later.

Just 1 key on mine. Had planned the Dremel hack myself.

Ordered tool steel to make another spindle. I think I will make on out of mild steel first to practice.

Was that 1" shaft headstock? That would mean it would need new pulleys/back gear setup. Or was that 1" 8-TPI thread on normal spindle.

Shenion you got a real deal there! Show us some pictures of the work you do with it.
And if you want to sell it, let us know. So we can fight over it

homer said:

Shenion you got a real deal there! Show us some pictures of the work you do with it.

Click to expand...

Still exploring what it can do. Has nice big quick-change tool post. Dug through box and found all 5 of an indexed tool set.

One of the 4 quick change holders has a set of knurlers. Had a play with it last night:


Had the height a bit off, but worked well.

And if you want to sell it, let us know. So we can fight over it

Click to expand...

Last week made 3 adapters for the wire feed motor on the 109. Real simple; 1/2" stepped down to 3/8 on one end, 6mm hole in the other. All came out wobbly as the spindle flex/play allows the center drill to easily wander. Also it is turning a bit of a taper.

After a year swearing profusely over the 109, this new one has now become priceless

Been busy this weekend. Spent several hours last night getting the lathe in its place. That meant I needed 10" more space. Move shelves that were bolted to wall; that caused other things to need to be moved. Space is real tight.

Then went through leveling, still need to bolt it to the floor.

Started turning a new spindle for the old lathe. 1" tool steel needed to be turned down. Dimensions from end to chuck: 0.550", then a 0.9" collar and finally a 1/2-20 thread.

Finished the 0.550 part (and did the 0.9"). Had some odd areas that the bar would turn uneven, get shiny areas. Turns out the carriage gibbs were loose. Readjusted them a then smooth again.

Took hours to turn down. This is tool steel, very hard and will work harden easily. So, use back gear and slowest feed. Took about 15 minutes a pass. Each pass about 0.035" cut. About 6 passes.

Then two finish passes with direct drive (higher RPM). Ended up 0.551" with about 0.0005 taper. Surface is like 800-grit sandpaper. Final polishing should get down to 0.550.

Now just have to make cut for the threaded area and cut off (0.9" is about 3/8" long then just over 1/2" long for the thread. Found a cutoff tool in the box of goodies

I'm still not used to a "real" lathe; although not an industrial one. My Sherline and AA/Dulap struggled turning 0.007" in a pass. This one does much more effortlessly. This new spindle shuld get the AA/Dulap back up to a usable state. Then ebay/Craig's list it goes

Lots of noise out of the headstock. Some slop in the back gear. Will look at getting some new bearings. Suprisingly, they are still available for this near 70-year old lathe

You will see a small cut near the headstock. That was to center the tailstock. Turn both ends, measure diff, readjust, you can see the dial gauge on the tailstock. I tweaked it twice to try to eliminate any taper.

Do need to make a tray under the lathe, swarf everywhere. This tool stock either cut 4' long springs or threw pieces in every direction.

Edit: almost done:

After some very light filing and then some polishing it is as close to 0.550 as I can measure .



Just need to cut off, the tap threads (will do manually.) I'll probably center bore it on the 109.

Something with this camera, anything bright and shiney come sup kinda dark. The spindle is polished, not perfect but nice.

I would thread it while its still centred.
Taps and dies more than likely wont go in or on square, look alright but first sign is when screwing anything on.

Is the taper due to the headstock out of alignment or the spindle flexing?

I reckon the Myford ML7 is almost a direct copy in lots of areas.
Had similar trouble with my old Myford turning stuff down, i wanted the job done. As stupid as it may seem what used to take 5+hrs i now do in less than half hour.
Silver steel or 01 isnt hard as such but have done well to do that on that.
What knackered mine up was using a vertical slide attachment for milling.

Hope the spindle dont warp when you harden it

I will face and cut the threads with the spindle mounted in the small lathe. Royal pain to do with no thread indicator. WIll need to practice first. It is hard as you must do it in several passes.

The taper was due to the tailstock being offset. It is real hard to adjust to center as the set screw ends are not smooth.

Put the model number in Sears parts online.

They still have parts listed.

2/3 of them are marked "Discontinued", but they have the bearings and pulleys for this 70-year old lathe in stock.

Now they are a bit inflated. Spindle bushings were $0.65 in my 1945 parts list. They are $12.49 now.

Clausing still services these Atlas/Craftsman lathes. Looks to be about 2/3 of Sears prices. I'll need a few sleeve bearings for the pulleys to get this good as new

Great thread guys, very interesting stuff, keep it going please I'm learning loads thanks

BIGROG

Tried some milling today:



Did not take time to install the collet adapter so use dthe 3-jaw chuck. Was some runout in the bit. Did finally find the adapters for the collets.

End result:


Should be smoother with the miling bit adapter rather than the chuck. Worked well but I can see a tiny bit of shake in the milling column. The feed was a bit faster than I would like as the cross slide power feed has a 1.5x gear ratio. I''ll have to change the feed gears to the lowest setting. Did it in 3 passes about 1/16" a pass. I think the milling bit is 1/2"

The piece is about 3" long, at the front, it reached the end of the travel for the cross slide. It can go farther out the back though.

Should work well enough for hobby work. hard to set up for exact square (the slot is at a slight diagonal.)

Certainly in the case of deeper rads, it usually pays to mill a slot first then change to rad cutter. Same with wood and plastics.
Speed up the lathe and get a feel for the cut, soon notice when something untoward happens.

Used to mill like that when all i had was a vertical slide. It knackered up everything by stressing the slides in no time at all. Cutters lasted 1/3 of the time if didnt break.
Proper millers, two now, never broke a cutter, well one 2mm dia in a deep slot on aluminium- swarf.

Pshyching myself up to dovetail titanium internal and external within 0.005mm 3 dimensionally, not looking forward to it and need the coolant fitting in first.

BIGROG said:

Great thread guys, very interesting stuff, keep it going please I'm learning loads thanks

BIGROG

Click to expand...

The same from me Great thread and learning loads never used lathe so don't know what I'm learning but looks like fun

Heck, I never used a lathe until about a year ago. Then not much.

I found you need to really do research first. I picked up a Sherline off of ebay relativly cheap and picked up locally. Very nice lathe, but really only for watchmakers. Too small (3x8") and made from alumnum and brass, turning steel was more that it can handle. Put my drill chuck in the tailstock and it took up half the bed. No power feed or thread cutting. Easy to CNC though.

Then was the Craftsman 109 lathe. Again an ebay local deal. Figured, hey its Craftsman, should be good. Basically junk. Has taken me months to get any thing decent out of it. As a small lathe it works hard and wears out. Was really beyond its prime. I am just finishing up making it good again.

So have learned a lot over the last year. Like learning a new language. All kinds of new terminology. Did a lot of reading an time on message boards.

This time again, I could not do much research. The deal was going fast; jumped on the Yahoo, Atlas group, did some searches and found biggest problems were with the 6" lathes, few with the 10" and a minor issue with the 12". So, sped over and picked it up.

There are a lot of comparisons to the Myford ML7.

Still learning a lot. Have been having "What is it" threads on the Atlas message group. Post a pic of some of the dozens of items in the toolbox that came with the lathe. The users have been spot on.

Turns out I have a box full of half of things. Like half of the wood working steady rest. Add to that, a dozen things that have nothing to do with this lathe.

Threads like this have been good, lot of good brains to pick here

More learning milling;




Adapter to use 1/4 HSS tooling. Has built in 7 degree rake, so grinding bits is easier. Milled from 13/16 12L14 hex stock. Mlled one "point" flat then angle groove and then reversed and milled 2 notches.

Broke one of my milling bits. Came loose in the collet adapter. Was not working it hard.

Milling on the lathe is just ok. When using the power feed, the drive gears make a chatter as the flutes hit the work. I ended up using manual cross feed for the second half.

Do want to cut the set screws shorter.

This is fun