Learning Arc Welding

With all this talk of arc welders I thought I'd give it a go. But where to start?

The machine
Not under debate. I have a Miller Syncrowave 300 which is capable of arc welding. From what I can make out from the manual it seems to run at roughly 60V, up to 80V at low current. Though it's a TIG welder at heart so the volts are fairly flat would that be a big problem (spotted the Miller page on droopers)? I have DC and AC options. I'll need to buy a rod holder and some rods.

What thickness steel?
For MIG I tend to suggest 1.5mm to 2.0mm for initial trials as this allows a wide range of weld behaviour and yet it is easy to avoid blowing holes. What thickness would you recommend for first attempts with an arc welder? Just for getting the hang of holding and laying welds with the thing.

Which rods?
I'm guessing some half decent 6013s? Would there be any better options for the beginner? And they like DC? Which polarity?

Which positions?
Should imagine laying welds in the middle of a flat horizontal sheet would be the way to start practising. Would I be right?

Anything else?
What other pointers would you give someone who is completely new to arc welding? Any more arc welding specific equipment to get hold of? Or any tips to make it easy to lay that first bead?

Apologies for the simple questions - I don't think we've has a really basic tutorial thread aimed at beginners in here so far.

I'd start out on thicker steel, say 5mm, and plenty of current. Much more room for error.

I found it easiest to start on 3mm with 6013.

First do a LOT of starting the arc and stopping again.

Once you developped a good technique for starting and stopping, try moving forward, freeze the angle at which you hold the electrode and move forward slowly.
Just play around with travelling speed and amps, keeping the angle and arclength constant.
I just kept fooling around until after a bunch of tries things went ok. When you see the slag peel off automatically, not too much spatter and a decent bead, you can weld

start out with some 3.2mm rods on 4-6mm plate

Which positions?
Should imagine laying welds in the middle of a flat horizontal sheet would be the way to start practising. Would I be right?

Click to expand...

yep

Anything else?
What other pointers would you give someone who is completely new to arc welding? Any more arc welding specific equipment to get hold of? Or any tips to make it easy to lay that first bead?

Click to expand...

something that transformed my stick welding was getting the arc length right, the weld is so much more consistant and the slg chips off itself (sometimes) also- wear safety glasses whan chipping the slag off, its painful in the eye

I would agree with rtbcomp on the thicker plate.

Also use two hands...hold the rod holder with one and support it with the other, either on the hand or the forearm, then lean on something for more stability.

Are you getting a head start for the "weld off"

Hehe...sounds like he is!

Prepare for lots of smoke and mess.


6013's are ok, just watch out for some rods, dissiamilair metal ones or stainless ones as you will need to avoid the fumes. Some low hydrogen rods aren't very healthy either.

Start with 1/8" (3-4mm) steel and 6013 rods. Use DC as it will be easier. I think 6013's will run either polarity but i tend to use DCEP. Use 2.4mm rods or larger. Small rods are a bit different.

The Dialarc will do fine. My Airco is the exact same designs. Actually when set for TIG it uses a steeper current droop (big knife switch that inserts resistance in the leads for TIG.) Mine is supposed to run 80V but i measure 90 on it.

I don't remember seeing any current scales on the Dialarcs. Mine has 5-60, 20-220, and 200-475 coarse ranges (big lever) with the fine adjust numbered 0-10. You would think on the 5-60 range with the coarse set to "5" it would be 32A. It is more like 20. The dial is not linear; I would expect the Dialarc to be similar. Midpoint is about 2/3 on the dial.

Some Dialarcs have the start adjustment, set it to about 1-2 divisions higher than the fine adjustment. The start dial is used for the first 0.3 sec after starting the arc. Normally set higher to help starting and get the rod up to temp.

Find what settings work best. All my rod tubes/boxes are marked with "20-220 range, DCEP, 65" so later I know what to set the machine to.

Other rods to try would be 6011 (deep penetration, great for creating smoke screens) and 7018 (real nice weld pool and easy to see but need to be kept dry.) You could buy from a weld supplier, but they would want to sell you a crate. Keep an eye out on ebay, lots rods show up from closed biz sites at a bargain. I have had some good name brand rods for $0.99 of ebay.

Positions and weld types to learn is the same for MIG. Start with a sheet and just lay some beads. Then do a butt joint; a hoizontal corner, a vertical up/down mid sheet.

Normally, there are multi-pass welds to learn, but it is the same as MIG.

Post some pics, I bet you do well, the Dialarcs make it much easier.

Malcolm want advice on learning to arc weld, use 5 or 6mm plate with 3.2mm 6013 rods. Over amp the rods ie run them at perhaps 150 amps, this is well over running them in terms of power. what it will do is mean it is less likely to allow the rod to stick because of the higher amperage. once you can keep a constant bead with out killing the arc turn the amperage down a bit and try again. It will produce a rotton weld with splatter everywhere but once you get down to 110amps on a 3.2 rod and can hold a constant arc it should be producing reasonable welds.
I must have taught loads of people the basics that way, because when most people first try all they get is a rod that welds its self to the job, not a job that is welded.

Now watch how many people sream that isnt the way to do it

irondarren said:

Malcolm want advice on learning to arc weld, use 5 or 6mm plate with 3.2mm 6013 rods. Over amp the rods ie run them at perhaps 150 amps, this is well over running them in terms of power. what it will do is mean it is less likely to allow the rod to stick because of the higher amperage. once you can keep a constant bead with out killing the arc turn the amperage down a bit and try again. It will produce a rotton weld with splatter everywhere but once you get down to 110amps on a 3.2 rod and can hold a constant arc it should be producing reasonable welds.
I must have taught loads of people the basics that way, because when most people first try all they get is a rod that welds its self to the job, not a job that is welded.

Now watch how many people sream that isnt the way to do it

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I found. I got so frustrated with sticking rods I just thought "sod it" and wacked the current up and it all became much easier.

Thanks all.

Sounds like there's a good agreement on 5mm plate or thereabouts for a beginner. I'm guessing 3.2mm rods would be best for 5mm mild steel and 2.4mm rods would be better if I were ever to attempt 3mm steel?

Sounds like an excellent idea to overamp the rods to avoid sticking for a first practice, then adjust technique down to a more suitable amperage.

My motivation is to get past the starting post so I can hopefully get more out of our mini-meet. Or at least understand what everyone is talking about rather than having to nod.

Thats the way I was taught it by a professional welder. Over amp the rod. The last few inches don't weld so good as the rod is glowing red by that point.

When i started stick welding over 30 years the firms welder told me to cut the rod in 2 makes it a lot easyer to control give it a go
David

Definitely sounds like an easy way to learn. Thanks Shenion for notes about the machine BTW - didn't really understand that Miller page with just the one read.

I've realised I have a book. Then I realised the book assumes you've learned already and misses the bits I asked (phew). Though it does suggest starting the arc with a sharp tap then lift. Then pulling the rod at an angle of 10 to 20 degrees from vertical. It also mentions practising doing that is handy before going for a bead with the gap to the work piece roughly the same as the electrode diameter. Hence the 2 hands to keep it steady.

it really isnt that hard Malcolm, Mig if you ask me is the worst form of welding going. it makes you lazy. if i TIG or arc for a bit, i notice the next time i mig, it seems to improve for a while. I get nice neat Mig beads until i become lazy again

malcolm said:

With all this talk of arc welders I thought I'd give it a go. But where to start?

The machine
Not under debate. I have a Miller Syncrowave 300 which is capable of arc welding. From what I can make out from the manual it seems to run at roughly 60V, up to 80V at low current. Though it's a TIG welder at heart so the volts are fairly flat would that be a big problem (spotted the Miller page on droopers)? I have DC and AC options. I'll need to buy a rod holder and some rods.

What thickness steel?
For MIG I tend to suggest 1.5mm to 2.0mm for initial trials as this allows a wide range of weld behaviour and yet it is easy to avoid blowing holes. What thickness would you recommend for first attempts with an arc welder? Just for getting the hang of holding and laying welds with the thing.

Which rods?
I'm guessing some half decent 6013s? Would there be any better options for the beginner? And they like DC? Which polarity?

Which positions?
Should imagine laying welds in the middle of a flat horizontal sheet would be the way to start practising. Would I be right?

Anything else?
What other pointers would you give someone who is completely new to arc welding? Any more arc welding specific equipment to get hold of? Or any tips to make it easy to lay that first bead?

Apologies for the simple questions - I don't think we've has a really basic tutorial thread aimed at beginners in here so far.

Click to expand...

There has been lots of talk about arc welding lately seems to be gaining popularity as the recession bites probably because it's fairly cheap to ark weld compared to mig and you can weld inside outside upside down standing on your head or even in the nip if you're feeling brave.
I read somewhere that it's much easier to learn mig welding but much harder to produce x-ray quality weld with a mig than with an ark. I was just wondering why this should be

MIG is so popular as it is easy to learn, you need no more skill then being able to draw a line with a pencil. Thats good if you have 50 guys you need to train to weld as the training course is short and cheap. Thats the main reason why MIG is so popular its ease of use - it really isn't the best process in many applications its commonly used for.

on the x ray thing scarecrow, its partly tradition, partly coldlap, and partly due to generally less operator training on a MIG plant....on the synergies tho and the new bread of wires, flux cored etc, and acceptance by the AWS and TWI its far more used, BTW much of traditional arc work ie boiler making is now done with MIGs and sub arcs, in the shop....

as everyone has says overamp to start on a decent bit of plate 3.2mm 6013s (decent ones) are very easy to use, once you get confident you can knock back the amps tell the undercut goes, strike the arc by scratching, or in my case wack it hard on the work so it bounces, (inverters with there magic starts do make you lazy tho), stringers to start, then move onto a weave, an excellent way to make sure you keep a constant forward speed is to do a figure of 8, and concentrate on that (the way I was taught back in the day)....

arc length, a 6013 will lay Down a run as long as the lead angles good around 15 deg on a flat butt, Iv got some recommended arc lengths and lead angles for other joints but I think too many facts and figures is just going to confuse matters.....

I'll have a crack at teaching you how to arc weld Malcolm!

See what Darren says - That isn't the way to do it!!!!- then again, he might have a point...

So - my way - 5/6mm plate, 120mm sq. 2.5mm rod would be my preference. I wouldn't over amp it, but certainly go as high as the box says - so probably 90A for a 6013 2.5mm. Then, dont just do lines of weld on the plate, do lines of weld to build up a pad!. Each run of weld gets laid next to the previous, then de-slagged and wire brushed. If you want to be really neat grind a tram line (normally two of course) into the edge of the weld, so you have a line to follow with the next one.

You have to build up a complete layer of weld without slag inclusions. When you've covered the plate, turn it 90 degrees and do it again.

This will teach you: how to start the arc, how to keep a straight line, how to merge welds, how to do a half fillet/half butt (sort of), plus give the basic practice of maintaining arc length and consistency.

It will also give confidence in performing a single, but basic technique.

mind amps are sooo subjective, I will run far hotter than many but probably arc at twice the speed, knowing how to lay a bead and what to look for fault wise is as important as parimiters....

Yeah, thats defo true Snowy