16 A or 32 A Industrial Plugs?

Muggins the Mug · Dec 28, 2008

Hi folks,

I'm sure these questions have probably already been asked, but I can't find what I'm looking for with the search function...

I've got one of those Powercraft 40A-160A turbo arc welders and it's I1 max = 36.58 Amps.

Will I need a 16 Amp or 32 Amp blue industrial plug and socket for this? My gut instinct tells me it's the 32 Amp one, but I want to double check.

I've got a dedicate 32 Amp MCB on the consumer unit that I can use, would I require to run a 4mm² cable because of the current draw from the arc welder?

Last question... As the MCB is rated at 32 Amps, does this mean that I don't need a fuse as it would disconnect this circuit at anything grossly above 32 Amps? I don't even think I could find a 32 Amp fuse anyways. :whistle:

Any advise would be greatly received.

Regards,

Ian.

ps: My step dad is a time served sparky (he's been away from the trade for over 15 years), but I don't want to bug him with questions this time of year.

irondarren · Dec 28, 2008

The way my portamig 300 is wire, is blue 32amp plug and socket wired direct to consumer unit using 6mm cable. At full power which is around 45amps it does pop the fuse but being as i dont use it at full power i havent got round to changing it to a 45amp fuse. Apart from the fuse on the consumer unit it has no other fusing. I would say its the best way to go for any high consumption equipment. Just make an adapter plug, using a house hold 13amp plug a short piece of cable and a 32 amp trailing socket, just incase you do need to use from a 13 amp supply.

madkayaker · Dec 28, 2008

your almost right if the machine is saying 36A you would need a 64A plug! run it on 32 with a 32mcb with a dedicated circuit. Get your dad to calculate cable size

Woody.v8 · Dec 28, 2008

36.58 Amps seems an awful lot of pull for a 160A arc set!

Wozzaaah · Dec 28, 2008

Wouldn't that be purely the inrush current at startup? The actual running current even at full whack ought to be a lot less than that. :dontknow:

Drains · Dec 28, 2008

Woody.v8 said:
36.58 Amps seems an awful lot of pull for a 160A arc set!

I've a 140A arc set (not an inverter), that'll run on a 13A plug for a couple of minutes.

I guess that means it should be rated somewhere over 16A, but 32 will be more than enough for a 160A arc, surely? (just use a 32A plug, 32A breaker, and if the breaker trips, turn it down)

Wozzes GigaAmp tig runs off a 63A socket doesn't it?

AshLawler · Dec 28, 2008

Definately use the big blue socket if you're going to be at full whack for more than a few inches of weld. I'd have said 4mm was on the thin side for 32 amps, unless you're only a few feet from the consumer unit. 6mm is probably enough. Also, the Mini Circuit Breaker will do exactly what a fuse does, only it's resettable.

It's worth looking into a C-type or D-type MCB (less than a fiver on the 'bay) that works like a slow-blow fuse, it lets you draw a dollop of extra power for a fraction of a second to fill up them thirsty transformer coils; switching my oxford on from cold would pop a domestic B-type 32A one time in three but it's been perfectly happy on a C-type and it still trips properly if I mong out and put the live torch down on the work.

Muggins the Mug · Dec 28, 2008

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the replies there. Most of the MCB's on the consumer unit are type 1's, it's an old Memera 21 consumer unit (council house job). I sourced a 32 A type b MCB off of eBay just before Xmas there so that it wouldn't trip everytime the welder was switched on. My stepdad suggested that I use 2.5mm², I don't think he realised the current draw from the machine. Surely anything bigger than 4mm² would be overkill? Isn't 6mm² what they use for fitting electric showers as ours is connected to a 45 Amp MCB.

The main fuse for the whole house is a 100 Amp job that was fitted when we had overnight electric storage heating, now we're gas central heating thankfully.

Thanks for bearing with me with all these questions I'm asking.

Regards,

Ian.

madkayaker · Dec 28, 2008

4mm is the minimum for a 32A radial circuit.

JayRS4 · Dec 28, 2008

I`m glad you`ve posted this up, i was going to post something very similar. Basically asking when the workshop gets wired up i want a pair of blues for the bigger stuff (MIG, Oxford and possibly tig) and whether is should go for 16`s or 32`s. As an addition, would you fit isolaters or just have them as constant live?

madkayaker · Dec 28, 2008

16A don't have to have isolator. 32A need isolator.

JayRS4 · Dec 28, 2008

Thanks for that, any ideas where to get some from, i`ve found 110 and 415 volts ones, but no 240`s, that said, the sparky`s here in the morning on other work so can ask him then

madkayaker · Dec 28, 2008

www.rswww.co.uk
Or www.allaboutelectrics.co.uk

Look up BS4343 thats the proper name.

Muggins the Mug · Dec 28, 2008

Hi Mad,

Would you suggest a shopping list of the following then?

32 Amp MCB (which I already have)
32 Amp socket
32 Amp plug
Isolator
6mm² 2 core with earth

Anything that I need to alter or amend there?

Regards,

Ian.

Archie · Dec 28, 2008

madkayaker said:
16A don't have to have isolator. 32A need isolator.

Do they? Ooops.....

JayRS4 said:
Thanks for that, any ideas where to get some from, i`ve found 110 and 415 volts ones, but no 240`s, that said, the sparky`s here in the morning on other work so can ask him then

City Electrical Factors. They have branches all over the place.

madkayaker · Dec 28, 2008

a plug 16A and below is classed as an isolator to above that it isn't. Muggings id recommend getting the sockets with built in isolator as it will stop you plugging in in on load! (makes you jump!!) Cable size is dependant on a few things such as length, thermal and ZE of supply (How good the earth is). Also a length a plastic conduit would be a good idea to protect the cable on the drop. Any electrical trade counter should have the bits but all about usually beat the "Cash" price at most.

Muggins the Mug · Dec 28, 2008

Hi Mad,

Thanks for the info there. To be honest, the 32 A socket will be located within 1.5 metres of the consumer unit so the cable run will be very short. The welder is on a shortish 1.5 metre cable and this will be plugged straight into the socket without running an extension cable (I may add one later though).

Regards,

Ian.

madkayaker · Dec 28, 2008

6mm will be fine then. Get A Spar trailing socket and plug if you order the parts just in case!

piman · Dec 29, 2008

Hello Jay,

switched 16\32\64 amp sockets are available and saves an extra component, i.e an isolator and look neater also.

Alec

Country Joe · Dec 29, 2008

The 32A ones I used are "interlocked", (if I've remembered the term correctly) and you can't pull the plug out unless it's already switched off. But the switch is part of the socket - i.e. they're not separate parts, as I'm assuming some isolators are.
I've not tried to plug in with it switched on, but I'm guessing it isn't possible. (though I may do so sometime, just out of curiosity!)
I got them on-line, from a place called CPC.(Combined Precision Components?) Who always seem to deliver very quickly.

Hope this helps,

CJ

16 A or 32 A Industrial Plugs?

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