CE Marking / BS EN 1090

[matt1978]

Hello,

For the welders, who work primarily with making/fabricating Structural Steel what information have you been told about EN 1090 so far?

For those who do not know, its quite long winded but basically its an amalgamation of all of the current Standards relating to Structual Steel work made from Steel and Aluminium (BS/DIN Numbers etc) and the EU have made a common standard called EN 1090. Once implemented it means that anyone producing Structual Steel for use within the EU must conform to this new standard.

It's broken up into 4 parts/levels but it applies to everyone and is being rolled out over the next 18 months or so. It will potentially mean re-writing of WPS and re-coding of welders, so its quite a big change.

Just wondered if anyone at your place of work had mentioned it yet.

MOD Edit: Made Matt's post title a bit more search friendly. Paul.

 

[sm-]

I have heard about it, a friend i help sometimes took his iws course and started making his own pwqrs because of this so he has explaind alot of it for me.

 

[matt1978]

The first part of the jigsaw becomes law from July 1st 2013, this means that the componant parts, (Nuts, Bolts, I-Beams, Box Section etc etc) used in construction will have to be CE marked.

Most of the major suppliers have already started CE marking these items anyway, so it should not be too much of an issue.

The big change will be that from 1st July 2014, all fabricated structural steel delivered to any site within the EU will also have to CE marked (EG the finished article)

This CE marking will apply to any load bearing structure, even for Cattle housing in the middle of farmers field.

EN 1090 is made up of 4 Execution classes, Exc 1 is the lowest and would apply to basic animal shelters etc, Exc 4 is the highest and would apply to Stadiums etc.

The Exc classes are based factors including, the way in which the item is fabricated (High Strength Steel, Pre-Post heat etc etc), the stress factor that the building will be in (a region with a high chance of sciesmic activity etc) and on the potential loss of life and economic impact should the building fail. Excecution Class 2 is what will apply to most structures within the UK and is pretty much the Exc Class that all fabricators should comply to as a minimum.

But even with Exc 2, the company will have to designate a RWC (Responsible Welding Co-Ordinator) who will be responsible for the execution of the welding processes and be resoinsible for keeping all of the quality paper work in check in line with ISO 3834. This is what will cause a problem for the smaller to medium fabricators because to be blunt its doubtful that they will already be employing someone with enough knowledge to be deemed suitable as the RWC. Aside from this, the company will have to have Qualified welding procedures for all aspects of there welding, all of the welders will have to be tested to EN 287-1 and all of the welding machines must have Volt/Amp meters and be calibrated.

Industry Associations such as the BCSA (British Constructional Steel Association) has made EN 1090 compliance a condition of membership so basically if you don't comply, you cant be a member. Aside from that the big national contractors who win a lot of the work/contracts, and sub it out to these smaller companies, will be legally liable if they sub work out to companies who do not conform and its very likey that no one would insure a building that is not CE marked from July next year so it should be quite self policing.

 

[AndyStobbs]

What a load of c**p to join multiple pieces of metal together.
As if the economic impact of failure should dictate the quality to which something is constructed.

Not a constructive post I know, sorry.

 

[Welderpaul]

What a load of c**p to join multiple pieces of metal together.
As if the economic impact of failure should dictate the quality to which something is constructed.

Not a constructive post I know, sorry.

This is an interesting topic to me, and i am sure to a few others also.

You might think it is a 'load of c**p', however having done a lot of research on the subject, it is, imo, being done for a good reason. One good thing that will arise is that it will clear out a lot of 'chancers' who are putting structural steelwork out there that is not fit for purpose. For those who choose not to comply with the BS and continue to fabricate structural steelwork without the CE marking and the host of minimum standards that are behind it, will be breaking the law.

We have a lot of work to do to get ourselves in line, and speaking to a few others there are quite a few hoops to jump through.

Keep the information coming Matt, i will add my two pence worth as i go along. Any others who are involved with this; your findings are greatfully accepted.

 

[matt1978]

What a load of c**p to join multiple pieces of metal together.
As if the economic impact of failure should dictate the quality to which something is constructed.

Not a constructive post I know, sorry.

I don't get your point Andy?

What are you disputing? How the Execution classes are determined? Or the fact that I posted anything relating to EN 1090 in the first place?

 

[AndyStobbs]

I take your points on board Paul, you are actively involved in the industry and I expect you have a far better overview of it than me as an onlooker. That said, I feel many chancers will continue regardless and take the risk. I also feel the points made further up the thread about insurers refusing to cover unmarked buildings are rather idealistic. Principally how is the age of a building to be proven without the insurers going to considerable lengths. Ie. contact with LR or planning departments. That would be a serious volume of checks for every installation in the country.
Also the scheme will do nothing to prevent substandard work providing the welder and equipment conform - on the day of test.
In my experience even qualified people can turn out some pretty rough work, across all trades ofcourse, not fab alone.

 

[Jim_gsxr1000]

All good in my opinion, bit more work, but will reduce the amount of poor work that's out there

 

[AndyStobbs]

I don't get your point Andy?

What are you disputing? How the Execution classes are determined? Or the fact that I posted anything relating to EN 1090 in the first place?

No the whole scheme in general. Seems like another way to shuffle money from firms and into some pot somewhere where itll never benifit anybody.

 

[matt1978]

It's not hard to be able to prove whether a building was built before of after a certain date is it? This applies to everything after July 1st next year. The building will basically have a quality cert provided with it which has a complete paper trail right back traceability for the quality of every nut and bolt used and reel of mig wire. Part of that responsibility will fall to the RWC. Would you put your name to something if you knew it wasn't right?

I am also struggling to understand what you find hard to grasp about how which category the Execution class the building would fall into. Its based on three factors, risk factor, production class and stress category. The risk factor of course is primarily based on loss of life but social and economical impact also plays a part.

This is not my idea. I am just posting about the new rules that are in place now and the ones that become mandatory from July next year :s

 

[matt1978]

No the whole scheme in general. Seems like another way to shuffle money from firms and into some pot somewhere where itll never benifit anybody.

The national welding Institutes, Welding engineers and Testing houses will be the first to benefit

I agree partly in what you say but I also think its obscene that anyone can make and sell load bearing structures without any qualifications or checks.

What they are trying to do is make it more regulated like the pressure vessel industry

 

[Welderpaul]

Matt, i've looked to see whether there is a body/company/whatever who offer a service to fabricators to guide them through the whole process of obtaining compliance with EN1090. Not found anything.

Are you aware of anyone offering this service, or is it up to each individual fabricator to feel their way through the process?

 

[AndyStobbs]

It's not hard to be able to prove whether a building was built before of after a certain date is it? This applies to everything after July 1st next year. The building will basically have a quality cert provided with it which has a complete paper trail right back traceability for the quality of every nut and bolt used and reel of mig wire. Part of that responsibility will fall to the RWC. Would you put your name to something if you knew it wasn't right?

I am also struggling to understand what you find hard to grasp about how which category the Execution class the building would fall into. Its based on three factors, risk factor, production class and stress category. The risk factor of course is primarily based on loss of life but social and economical impact also plays a part.

This is not my idea. I am just posting about the new rules that are in place now and the ones that become mandatory from July next year :s

You're writting as though I'm getting onto you for posting the infomation. This is not the case. Yes I am having difficulty in seeing how there can be 4 tiers to how soundly something is built. If tier 4 is a perfect build, perfect welds, flawless stock etc. Then where does that leave tier 1? Is it allowed to bend and flap about in a strong breeze. I cannot see how something can be built to a lesser standard and remain fit for purpose.
Also I didn't say it would be hard to check build dates but it would deffinitely be time consuming.
Who carries out the CE certification, and why ever can something not be sound simply because the materials/fabricator don't conform to a standard?
Also with respect to putting your name to something unsound, that will deter honest people I agree but will do little to put somebody off making a fast buck.

 

[matt1978]

I know some independent Welding Engineers that are offering consultations about what you'd need to conform and even to be used as the designated RWC.

I have no idea of costs though, I'll give you a bell tomorrow.

 

[matt1978]

You're writting as though I'm getting onto you for posting the infomation. This is not the case. Yes I am having difficulty in seeing how there can be 4 tiers to how soundly something is built. If tier 4 is a perfect build, perfect welds, flawless stock etc. Then where does that leave tier 1? Is it allowed to bend and flap about in a strong breeze. I cannot see how something can be built to a lesser standard and remain fit for purpose.
Also I didn't say it would be hard to check build dates but it would deffinitely be time consuming.
Who carries out the CE certification, and why ever can something not be sound simply because the materials/fabricator don't conform to a standard?
Also with respect to putting your name to something unsound, that will deter honest people I agree but will do little to put somebody off making a fast buck.

Sorry I thought you was, hence the dont shoot the messenger tone of my replies my mistake.

I suppose an easy way with the insurance would be if the building had already been insured for 2 or more years then you would know it was built before the cut off date so proof of last 2 insurance certs would be enough. I don't know.

That's the whole point about about the Exc classes, it means that it was built specifically for its purpose. It doesn't mean that a Exc 1 building would be sub standard, it means that it would be built to a standard suitable for a building that falls into hat category. Obviously you would expect that Wembley stadium would have more quality checks built in and traceability than a cow shed in a farmers field. It doesn't mean that the cow shed would be sub standard but what it does mean is that a company who is only able to cope/conform to Exc class 1 would not be anywhere near a project like Wembley which would be Exc 4. That is a one extreme to another example of course

The fabrication company itself can CE mark the building, that's why he has to prove at which level he is able to conform or a national body such as The TWI can do it, obviously it would be cheaper if you did it yourself

 

[Rudi McAnichal]

RIDBA (Rural and Industrial Design & Building Association) have published quite a bit of information about this in their journal over the past year or so.

www.ridba.org.uk/cemarking.htm
"To help its steel frame Corporate Member FMs, RIDBA has agreed to contract with the Structural Steel Institute (SCI) and BM TRADA to develop a Design Protocol (DP) and a Factory Quality Control Manual (FQCM) for them"

 

[backpurge]

Matt, i've looked to see whether there is a body/company/whatever who offer a service to fabricators to guide them through the whole process of obtaining compliance with EN1090. Not found anything.

Are you aware of anyone offering this service, or is it up to each individual fabricator to feel their way through the process?

Paul
A guy I used to work with is now with a firm offering this service, they are based in Cheshire but cover the whole country (they have just been working with a company in Halifax)

Not sure what their charges are apart from they are not cheap, I suspect it would be well worth shopping around to find the guys best suited to your needs.

 

[Welderpaul]

Paul
A guy I used to work with is now with a firm offering this service, they are based in Cheshire but cover the whole country (they have just been working with a company in Halifax)

Not sure what their charges are apart from they are not cheap, I suspect it would be well worth shopping around to find the guys best suited to your needs.

Would you mind PM'ing me the details?

 

[backpurge]

Would you mind PM'ing me the details?

No probs, I'll try and get hold of him to get their contact details later today

 

[Bede]

I appreciate the info and would welcome any further updates.