Inverter Fusion died, where to look?

[Bill Edwards]

My lovely IFL 200PHF (the one with HF and every TIG gadget) died today.
It clicked and the display flashed a little as it does when plugged in, it looked like a bad connection, then completely died - all this happened in a couple of seconds.

I opened it up and checked its getting 240v OK and that the power switch is working, then it started clicking. I followed the noise to a 12v relay on a circuit board, it clicks on then immediately goes off, waits a second and repeats the cycle.

Any thoughts on what could be wrong, and where to start looking?
Even if it didn't have all the HF they're complicated units and just disassembling them is a task on its own.

I'm somewhat disappointed about this, and also stuck - buying cellulose rods and other DC only stuff is fine when you've a working DC welder, but not when it's broken!

 

[Spark plug]

Sounds like there's a short probably a dead component some ware pulling the voltage to the relay coil down.

If it where me I would scour the circuit boards for any signs of burnt or bulging components other than that your best bet will be to take it to a electronics repair company.

 

[R Kraft]

Inverters have a bootstrap circuit that puts a pulse of power to the power supply to start the inverter oscillating.
If a capacitor has failed the oscillator will not start and the bootstrap circuit will keep trying to kick start it.
A seldom seen problem is a damper diode failing short.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Oh dear, looks like I've some big digging to do. Just getting the casing apart enough to actually see inside seems like a big operation.

At least I've a couple of places to begin looking.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Oh dear, looks like I've some big digging to do. Just getting the casing apart enough to actually see inside seems like a big operation.

At least I've a couple of places to begin looking.

IFL are just the other side of the Blackdown Hills from me, just outside of Honiton in Devon, might be worthwhile giving them a ring.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Hmm, I never thought of that - just phoning up and asking nicely where I should be looking.
Ought to be worth a shot!

 

[Shox Dr]

Let us know how you get on, I've the same unit where MMA works but not the TIG side.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Will do, though I don't know when.
It might be tomorrow or Wednesday that I have a better look and try calling IF. On the other hand, I do have a 110v unit that I bought as faulty, took apart, found it to be working and now need to assemble, so if that does work this could end up on the back burner, though I'll try to get it fixed soon. It's a lot of money's worth to be sat broken, and it's got the power for 4mm rods which I was kind of counting on for this particular job anyway!

 

[Bill Edwards]

I've just looked up and saved IF's number in my phone, so will hopefully get to make the call tomorrow, all being well.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Hmm, I never thought of that - just phoning up and asking nicely where I should be looking.
Ought to be worth a shot!

How old is your machine?

Inverter Fusion Ltd have announced that, from 1st September 2013, all their FusionProfessional range of MMA and TIG welding machines and electrolytic stainless steel weld cleaning machines will be covered by a comprehensive 3 year parts and labour warranty.

Graham Hill, Technical and Product Development Manager commented, “We are so confident about the quality, reliability and longevity of our machines that we have decided to extend our warranty for our Professional range from 2 to 3 years from the date of purchase. All repairs are carried out at our factory in Honiton, Devon by our experienced engineers and we aim to despatch all machines back to the customer within 72 hours of receipt.”

Inverter Fusion have been designing and manufacturing reliable, technologically advanced inverter welding machines in the UK since the 1990s and, over that time, have gained a vast amount of knowledge and experience in the market. The Fusion machines are lightweight, compact and easily portable and have excellent duty cycles to reduce downtime. The range includes both 240v and 110v machines.

All the models in the Fusion Professional range are powered by planar technology transformers – these are smaller and lighter than other transformers and give superior performance and unequalled reliability compared to traditional wound technology. Their award winning robust, durable toughened nylon case, with a protection class of IP23, are designed to stand up to harsh, dirty environments and they are fitted with a forced fan wind tunnel cooling system to prevent contamination from dirt and dust.

Contact us for further information about the Fusion range of welding machines andelectrolytic stainless steel weld cleaners orfind your nearest distributor.

 

[Shox Dr]

I suffer from the same affliction, I had the IF for well over 5yrs, as the Kemmpi works I seen on reason to get the IF working, but I could do with it for site work, these days.

 

[skotl]

Oh dear, looks like I've some big digging to do. Just getting the casing apart enough to actually see inside seems like a big operation.

At least I've a couple of places to begin looking.

Video the dissection. I did that when I took my plasma cutter apart and it still took me an hour to reassemble it, with constant reference to the vid.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Well sadly I bought it second hand (not all that long ago, aggh) so have no idea when it was made/sold.

 

[Bill Edwards]

OK, update:

From what I could see from peering through the case (splitting one of these apart is a task on its own) there doesn't look to be anything obviously damaged.
I phoned Inverter Fusion, the chap I spoke to seemed OK.
He checked the serial number, turns out the machine is 5 years old so no warranty. He didn't think it likely to be something I can repair, said it could even be a software fault.
So I'm sending it to them and they'll take a look and come back to me with a price for fixing it.

As it happens I also have a 110v unit which I bought as non working with the intention of fixing, but as they aren't easy to work on and I'm sending in one unit, I thought I might as well send them both in and see what happens.

They should arrive with IF on Thursday, I'll keep you posted.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

OK, update:

From what I could see from peering through the case (splitting one of these apart is a task on its own) there doesn't look to be anything obviously damaged.
I phoned Inverter Fusion, the chap I spoke to seemed OK.
He checked the serial number, turns out the machine is 5 years old so no warranty. He didn't think it likely to be something I can repair, said it could even be a software fault.
So I'm sending it to them and they'll take a look and come back to me with a price for fixing it.

As it happens I also have a 110v unit which I bought as non working with the intention of fixing, but as they aren't easy to work on and I'm sending in one unit, I thought I might as well send them both in and see what happens.

They should arrive with IF on Thursday, I'll keep you posted.

I kicked myself as for ages IFL were doing the 175amp MMA for £200, with a 100% duty cycle. Typically when I was ready to buy one they no longer did them but I now see they are selling them again but haven't found a price.
Anyone know what they are selling for?
http://www.inverterfusion.co.uk/175ma-mma/

 

[Bill Edwards]

No.
But I do remember you asking about them when I found them and posted the thread on them.

Typical isn't it, when you only end up in a position to buy them when they're no longer available.

How about asking Weldequip? I suggest this as they sell other models, and might be able to get the 175 in - must be worth asking.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Only curiosity value really as I bought the GYS 200mma but if they were still around the £200 mark it would give me an idea for a 21st birthday present for my son who is an apprentice welder fabricator.

 

[Bill Edwards]

OK, update:

I'm not happy.

It needs a new main board. £243. Plus VAT.

Also, the 110v unit I sent with it needs a new main board. I forget the price, but it's only £80 less than buying a new welder off them with a 3 year warranty.
What wasn't mentioned when I spoke to them the first time is they charge a not insignificant fee of £30 for finding out what's wrong.


I am not happy.

 

[roofman]

OK, update:

I'm not happy.

It needs a new main board. £243. Plus VAT.

Also, the 110v unit I sent with it needs a new main board. I forget the price, but it's only £80 less than buying a new welder off them with a 3 year warranty.
What wasn't mentioned when I spoke to them the first time is they charge a not insignificant fee of £30 for finding out what's wrong.


I am not happy.

thats not good Bill hope the "other one" gets you by for now Mate..

 

[Bill Edwards]

I'm pretty annoyed. I find it hard to see that they could both need main boards anyway - no actual damage to the boards, and surely it'll just be a couple of components.
I've OK'd the work for the 200phf model as it hurts but seems better than throwing it away. I might just stop eating for a month or two to pay for it...

Yep, the 'other one' ended up in use today. I'm quite pleased with it, it runs cellulose rods and maxed out was just right for the 3.2 rods I'm using, and I did a fair bit of welding with them without it overheating. Lovely machine for light work.
Hope it doesn't pack up though, looking at the prices charged for repairs I can't imagine it being economical should the worst happen.

I think I'll use it as the main machine as it is so handuy and keep the big one for when I'll never stop welding or want 4mm rods. Which I did today really, but at least I got the job done.