Woden 190/8 Vice Restoration

[Dieselman 63]

It's about two years since I restored my first 'proper' vice, a Record 34P. I picked it up in really bad condition, with quite a lot of weld slag all over the place and a heavy coat of paint

It was a tough first restoration, back then I didn't have most of the stuff I have now, but I got it done and it works great - it' still my go-to vice

The only thing that annoys me is I'd really like it if it were a 34, the one with the quick release. Winding in and out is tiring so I've been looking for a decent qr vice for a while but to no avail...

Until this popped up on my feed whilst recovering from surgery. Amazingly it was relisted a few times and the price even dropped when someone asked it to be, but still it did not sell. I decided to step forward and have a punt, and today I brought it home with me, all 68lbs!

And the verdict? It's absolutely massive. Amazingly this isn't the largest they did either! There was an 8A which weighed in at 90lbs, and the 9 which came in at 100lbs. The latter had 7" jaws - that's like a small woodworking vice!

The first thing I noticed is it's made of steel, which dates it pre-WWII-ish as ductile iron had not been invented yet. It's been repainted at some stage of its life - they've done a thorough job and there's no 'proper' rust anywhere, just a bit of surface on the exposed bits.

For something that's about 80 years old, the jaws are in great condition. They could be a little more grippy for my liking but at least they're not hacked to bits.

Lastly, I didn't have a mug so you'll have to make do with a tin of tomatoes!

Cheers, updates to come

 

[Dieselman 63]

What's the most important thing when it comes to restoring a vice?

That's right - having another vice! Second time round things are going a lot quicker and I'm not constantly nearly stabbing myself with punches and screwdrivers trying to levy parts from each other.

This is the original colour. It's a sort of grey turquoise. Interesting to note they weren't sending them out in blue or red at this stage - some early steel Records were red and later Woden products were blue, a much darker shade than Record roundel blue.

I thought I'd seen the back of these gremlins after I'd taken all the plaques off my machines, but no - a twist rivet holds the qr assembly together and must be punched out from the other side.

And that's all in bits now.

The previous restoration hasn't fully dismantled the vice and has just slapped a coat of paint over it. As always, this makes life difficult as it's one more layer to undo. I turned my attention to the sliding jaw and the back piece people love to use as an anvil (despite this vice having an anvil)

Not bad, and it came up wonders after a go with a flapdisk. Like really, really good! I may have to tone this down - it's a bit shiny even for me!

I will need to get the grinder rebuilt to use the wire wheel, so there is some other restoration to get done before I can tackle this, but all in all a good start. Next up I'll probably start chemically stripping the paint.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Lastly, I didn't have a mug so you'll have to make do with a tin of tomatoes!

 

[pedrobedro]

Lastly, I didn't have a mug so you'll have to make do with a tin of tomatoes!

Don't sell them short those are tomatoes with fresh herbs and olive oil. You could have used a china cup and saucer we wouldn't have thought any less of you ( I bet she doesn't let you take them in the shed though ) Put some gaffer tape on your wafer stick can label as well you are showing the rest of us up.

 

[Dieselman 63]

Don't sell them short those are tomatoes with fresh herbs and olive oil. You could have used a china cup and saucer we wouldn't have thought any less of you ( I bet she doesn't let you take them in the shed though ) Put some gaffer tape on your wafer stick can label as well you are showing the rest of us up.

Look at you detailing my topic! Have you never indulged in a little metalwork and a chocolate wafer?

Mum actually wanted to chuck the tins out but I insisted on saving them. They’re good tins, a hole punched into the side and you can screw then to the wall. I store my small files in them, right above the vice, handiest place to put them plus they don’t go walk about!

Also those tomatoes are the best I’ve had here. Rich red flavour - no herbs, just garlic and olive oil!

 

[Dieselman 63]

I took the qr assembly with me to big school today. The results were very pleasing.

The sandblaster has been refilled with a coarser black sand but the gloves haven't been fixed. I blasted the bar, the lever and the cast bit, and my arm (lightly) too!

So the bar got a full clean and polish. No fancy patina here, this stuff is functional and the shiner the better!

The spring came up particularly nicely on the wire brushing machine

A little test fit for fun

And now the front cast bit has gone into primer. I will investigate paint colours tomorrow!

Cheers

 

[Dieselman 63]

Or maybe tonight...

I mixed up a test and applied it. Personally I think it looks really good and I know that’s what counts, but what do you lot think? Bear in mind that this is the original colour (or a close enough match)

http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/articles/Darlaston/Woden2.htm

Scroll down to the vice section of this 1924 Woden catalogue and you can see the green featured. I have a feeling this vice is very old indeed.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Also those tomatoes are the best I’ve had here. Rich red flavour - no herbs, just garlic and olive oil!

So, if Carlsberg did tomatoes.....

 

[Dieselman 63]

So, if Carlsberg did tomatoes.....

Might be easier to have a mod rename the thread...

‘Woden 190/8 Vice Restoration and Tinned Tomato Recommendations’

 

[Dieselman 63]

Out with the chemical stripper. The paint is hard and difficult to chip with a screwdriver, which made me think this stage would be a complete pain but then...

This happened. I was expecting it to be indifferent to the stripper. After one application, this is the sort of thing that was left

Pretty good. It only took another go and it was all gone. You can actually see remnants of the old green paint under the red if you look carefully.

The dimple on the right side was not (as I initially thought) filled with paint and had in fact never been broken through, strangely. I discovered this when my short, sharp tap with a centre punch broke through the thin wall. Since there's no grub screw up top, I'm happy to open this out so that I can oil it. I used a standard twist drill then softened the edges with a countersink bit

I also gave the screws which hold the quick release mount to the slider a quick file and wire brush. I love it when old stuff comes up like new!

Underneath the slider, the ways were all coated in dripped red paint. Like... why do this? It goes some way to explain why the vice wasn't sliding as easily as it should. I used a flapdisk and tidied it up with a bit of stripper and wire brushing.

One side down and it looked like this. It's actually really quite rusty which may explain why the paint came off so easily. I gave it a hard going over with 60 grit and turps, then wire brushed again.

This had it looking much better and much cleaner. I tried to avoid the lettering with my sander but it appears others haven't and the letters W and N are a bit worn.

Finally, even though I've got more stripping to do on this, I put the entire side into primer to prevent flash rusting. Once the entire piece is finished, I will give it a once over with primer to make the patchwork more uniform

Cheers

 

[Dieselman 63]

Someone had previously added an extension plate to the sliding jaw. I don't know why they did this and from the advert it was unclear how it was attached. I was hoping it was welded so I could try and crack it off and grind back the weld

Sadly the casting had been drilled and tapped. To remedy this I simply cut the hex heads off the screws and reinserted them, peining them a little to hopefully jam up the internals. I should probably have used loctite but that costs money I don't have. Afterwards they got filed and sanded back flush.

In fact, most of the afternoon was spent filing. This back piece has a really rough finish. A flapdisk wasn't enough so I think I'll try and file it so that it's a little smoother.

The anvil too has a noticeable seam from the cast - pretty useless as an anvil really.

So much filing and then a flapdisk later, the anvil is now flat. I didn't want it to look fresh out of the factory so these little dimples can stay. I do however want it to function like a new vice! No stickiness or clunky movement allowed.

All the guide rails needed filing to clear the paint - thanks a lot red paint guy

It was really nice to put it back together and have the two pieces slide effortlessly

At some point in time the cast qr assembly has taken a knock and this put the whole lever out of skew, as well as making the handle clip the screw shaft. Gentle taps with a hammer got it back into shape - it is a bit of an S now, but it works and I'm happy enough with that.

From the front, this is what the screw shaft should look like. When the shaft was painted red it was chaffing badly, another contributor to stiff movement.

After a rather painful session of learning why the lever bar doesn't go the other way up (lever handle twisted round quickly and got my thumb!), I have it back together on the bench. I think I sorted out most of the gremlins today, so it should be a case of stripping and painting now.

Tomorrow I'll take the screw and halfnut to uni for a little treatment on the wire brushing machine (and the blaster to get the paint off the halfnut )

I also need to drill out the end of the lever bar to fix a bolt to stop it sliding all the way out. It's a really nice vice, but I'm not sure I will be able to use it once done as it is just so massive! It's okay though, as I've also got the bar bender. One day I'll have a proper metalwork bench to mount both of these to.

 

[MattF]

I also need to drill out the end of the lever bar to fix a bolt to stop it sliding all the way out.

The flat bar?

 

[Dieselman 63]

The flat bar?

Yep, just at the very end - unless you in your great wisdom on this subject have an alternative?

Glad to have you onboard the restoration btw!

 

[MattF]

That should be long enough so that it never pops out of the halfnut assembly. Is the large washer on the rear end of the leadscrew, which prevents the rear of the slide coming forward, beyond the half nut housing?

 

[Dieselman 63]

That should be long enough so that it never pops out of the halfnut assembly. Is the large washer on the rear end of the leadscrew, which prevents the rear of the slide coming forward, beyond the half nut housing?

Yes, but the screw isn’t secured in any way at the end since the front is (with the qr mech).

 

[MattF]

In what way is it popping/sliding out? That flat bar is only secured at the lever end, and then in a notch in the half nut cradle, (else a piece of flat strip), holds it in place where the half nut is. A photo of what's happening would make the situation/problem clearer.

This is how it should look, or similar, from underneath.

 

[Dieselman 63]

In what way is it popping/sliding out? That flat bar is only secured at the lever end, and then in a notch in the half nut cradle, (else a piece of flat strip), holds it in place where the half nut is. A photo of what's happening would make the situation/problem clearer.

This is how it should look, or similar, from underneath.

View attachment 141260

What happens is when you grip the lever and pull the sliding jaw out, the nut comes off the bar as the end of the sliding jaw passes through the body causing an almighty clunk as the spring releases and the halfnut falls limp.

I’ll take a photo in 12 hours time when I’m home

I’ve got the screw, the halfnut and a grinder flap cover in tow today. I must be one of the only people in the city whose bag is filled with iron and steel castings!

 

[MattF]

That's what the washer on the back end of the leadscrew is to prevent happening. Where that unthreaded portion of the leadscrew goes through that underslung support on the rear of the slide, a large washer with a bore just big enough for the smooth portion of the screw goes behind that support, on the inside of the slide, on the leadscrew. That stops the slide going too far into the housing. The flat bar should be long enough that it still sits in the half nut at that point. If all of that is as it should be, there's something amiss. The end of the slide should stop dead roughly level with the rear of the body, and go no further.

It's easier to visualise than explain, btw.

 

[Dieselman 63]

That's what the washer on the back end of the leadscrew is to prevent happening. Where that unthreaded portion of the leadscrew goes through that underslung support on the rear of the slide, a large washer with a bore just big enough for the smooth portion of the screw goes behind that support, on the inside of the slide, on the leadscrew. That stops the slide going too far into the housing. The flat bar should be long enough that it still sits in the half nut at that point. If all of that is as it should be, there's something amiss. The end of the slide should stop dead roughly level with the rear of the body, and go no further.

It's easier to visualise than explain, btw.

Very informative and very helpful - armed with this knowledge I will begin a new investigation tonight, and find a washer which fits Thank you

 

[MattF]

This shows the washer from a Parkinson 8A. As long as it's wide enough that it doesn't fit between those uprights in the body, behind the half nut, you're sorted. Any bog standard mild steel washer will do. You preferably want a thick washer though, as a thin one will be inclined to bend if you pull the slide out with some oomph a few times.