2k Clearcoat over Cellulose Metallic. Disaster. Help

[beneedle67]

Hello to you all. Can anyone advise me - I am completely stuck.
I sprayed the rear quarter panels after welding repairs to the rear wheel arches. I used celly etching high build primer then celly metallic. Then finished with 2k Clear coat.

It all looked great but had a couple of runs in the clearcoat - nothing too disastrous I thought. I rubbed them down the next day with 600 then 1000

That is when the problems began. I went a little too far and went into the metallic. No problem I thought. Just go back over the metalic.

Well, it all wrinkled where I had feathered it. Okay, keep calm I thought - it clearly hasn't fully cured - must learn not to rush. Two days later and it still wrinkles. Okay, I thought. Simply lightly sand, feather then a light coat of primer then new metalic. (Too bad about the price of the paint, I thought.) No. Wrong again. The primer also wrinkles the feathered edges.

There must be a solution other than taking the whole lot off.
Can anyone advise. I would be very grateful.

Yours, Ben

 

[Chickenjohn]

2K paint does not stick very well over cellulose. If you were going to spray 2K clear coat you would have been better off with 2K PRimer and metallic, or even water based.

As a fix now, try feathering again and just lightly dust the first few coats of metallic celly paint on and then apply a light coat, then dust the 2K clear coat over the top when the celly is totally dry. Build up the clear in dust coats at first then thin coats leaving to dry before a wet coat. Go really slowly and dry with each coat, it is the incompatible solvents that cause wrinkling.

You might get away with it, if not, strip to bare metal, etch prime and use the same paint system for all coats this time.

good luck!!!

 

[Chipper]

As said you'll need to really put the celly on lightly to stop the new stuff waking up the old. But I reckon the repair will probably show... being metallic.

 

[Chickenjohn]

As said you'll need to really put the celly on lightly to stop the new stuff waking up the old. But I reckon the repair will probably show... being metallic.

Yes, I agree, being metallic the repair may show. Worth a go though before stripping the whole car back to bare metal!!

 

[Chipper]

Personally I'd save the bother repairing, but just strip or flat the panel and start that over, hopefully poss without doing the whole car! Now that would be painful...

 

[Chickenjohn]

Personally I'd save the bother repairing, but just strip or flat the panel and start that over, hopefully poss without doing the whole car! Now that would be painful...

Yes, agreed, as long as the paint matches the rest of the car!! (metallics can be tricky).

 

[the snooper]

i dont think you will stop it easily the best thing you can do to guarantee you dont waste more and more paint and cash is to flat it off again go and spend a tenner or so on some isolator get some base coat metalic not celly and just respray.
if you do use isolator leave an hour to off do not flat then prime flat primer lightly and away you go with the rest

 

[Windy Miller]

i dont think you will stop it easily the best thing you can do to guarantee you dont waste more and more paint and cash is to flat it off again go and spend a tenner or so on some isolator get some base coat metalic not celly and just respray.
if you do use isolator leave an hour to off do not flat then prime flat primer lightly and away you go with the rest

Go with the Snooer's idea - probably not what you wanted to hear, but this IS the best (only?) way to deal with it.

The solvents in the celly will attack your lacquer, so you need the isolator to keep it all from pickling up.

Like the Snooper says - DONT FLAT THE ISOLATOR!

 

[langy]

I was just wondering why you used celly basecoat & celly etch ???

Hello to you all. Can anyone advise me - I am completely stuck.
I sprayed the rear quarter panels after welding repairs to the rear wheel arches. I used celly etching high build primer then celly metallic. Then finished with 2k Clear coat.

It all looked great but had a couple of runs in the clearcoat - nothing too disastrous I thought. I rubbed them down the next day with 600 then 1000

That is when the problems began. I went a little too far and went into the metallic. No problem I thought. Just go back over the metalic.

Well, it all wrinkled where I had feathered it. Okay, keep calm I thought - it clearly hasn't fully cured - must learn not to rush. Two days later and it still wrinkles. Okay, I thought. Simply lightly sand, feather then a light coat of primer then new metalic. (Too bad about the price of the paint, I thought.) No. Wrong again. The primer also wrinkles the feathered edges.

There must be a solution other than taking the whole lot off.
Can anyone advise. I would be very grateful.

Yours, Ben

 

[jaykay]

think i would strip it,you could well be adding to the problem.+you are bending the rules,celly is not ment to have 2k lac over it.
next day is not long enough for thru drying.

 

[sprayerDrew]

you need a 2k wet on wet sealer or use 2k primer sealer if no joy i would strip the area but it has always worked for me what it sounds like is the fresh paint is burning around the edges. If not go on to a paint manufactures website and click paint rectification and it has all the explinations and how toos for common problems .
www.Midlandpaintwerks.co.uk

 

[beneedle67]

Hi to you all. Many thanks for your thoughts on my little disaster of my own making. Well, I used 2k over celly because that is what the guy at the paint shop advised. I too was a bit surprised and questioned it. I am in Austria, by the way. Sure they do things a little differently. The paint is from a German firm called MIPA. Their website seems very genuine and professional and full of information. However their health warning Data makes very little of the isocyanates health risk. That also surprised and confused me.

You can find MIPA very easily, if any of you were interested - Just google MIPA and if the page comes up in German you can find a link to the English site at the bottom of their homepage.

I have written to them today asking what isolating paint they supply and also their opinion as to solutions.

Having now left it for a few days and as soon as it is not raining (it is not just in the Uk that it rains incessantly), I think that I will experiment a little further - at this point I have not too much to lose - except time, I suppose.

I’ll try Chickenjohn’s idea first. Then Snooper’s. Lastly I’ll face the terrible truth and strip it.

But I have a question for Snooper. Do you mean use isolator then use 2k metallic then 2k clearcoat?

One last thing – the panel that worked looks really great straight from the gun.

Thanks once again, Ben

 

[langy]

Well at least you learned one thing, don't go to that paintshop for advice

Hi to you all. Many thanks for your thoughts on my little disaster of my own making. Well, I used 2k over celly because that is what the guy at the paint shop advised. I too was a bit surprised and questioned it. I am in Austria, by the way. Sure they do things a little differently. The paint is from a German firm called MIPA. Their website seems very genuine and professional and full of information. However their health warning Data makes very little of the isocyanates health risk. That also surprised and confused me.

You can find MIPA very easily, if any of you were interested - Just google MIPA and if the page comes up in German you can find a link to the English site at the bottom of their homepage.

I have written to them today asking what isolating paint they supply and also their opinion as to solutions.

Having now left it for a few days and as soon as it is not raining (it is not just in the Uk that it rains incessantly), I think that I will experiment a little further - at this point I have not too much to lose - except time, I suppose.

I’ll try Chickenjohn’s idea first. Then Snooper’s. Lastly I’ll face the terrible truth and strip it.

But I have a question for Snooper. Do you mean use isolator then use 2k metallic then 2k clearcoat?

One last thing – the panel that worked looks really great straight from the gun.

Thanks once again, Ben

 

[the snooper]

But I have a question for Snooper. Do you mean use isolator then use 2k metallic then 2k clearcoat?

One last thing – the panel that worked looks really great straight from the gun.

Thanks once again, Ben

just flat off your pannel ready to spray then get some isolater like Barcoat spray the pannel leave for an hour but dont flat at all, prime it then you can give it a light flat.

re the metalic all you need is metalic base coat ( not celly not 2k just base coat) and 2k laquer to finish.

by using the isolater you will have no more problems and will be a whole lot quicker and easier then removing it all