3d Print or carbon fibre mudguard?

[Bluemotion]

I’m just finishing building a two part prototype rear mudguard for a modern bike in steel and plastic. The plastic section has been bought in and steel bespoke made. If I want to mass produce these subject to interest which way is best and why?
At first I was considering reproducing in sheet aluminium but it’s too labour intensive. The other thing is that the plastic side of the mudguard is limited to stock as when their gone their gone so might have to reproduce copies of that too.

 

[stuvy]

If I was putting something on a Road bike it’s carbon not plastic

If it’s for an enduro the strongest material you can get

 

[Bluemotion]

It’s was from the production simplicity, speed and cost point of view not particularly durability and it’s a road bike.

 

[stuvy]

Quality costs, I’d rather pay the extra and have something that gives me 5bhp in my head

It’s gonna need to be abs as a printed piece won’t last very long with the vibration/shock/stones/rubber hitting it

 

[ajlelectronics]

Take a mould and make fibreglass replicas?

 

[daedalusminos]

What's the selling price, what kind of volumes and how much are you willing to invest upfront in tooling etc?

 

[Bluemotion]

What's the selling price, what kind of volumes and how much are you willing to invest upfront in tooling etc?

Probably in region of £200-300. I’m not sure what sort of volume there’s going to be as yet but I need to find a small manufacturer first to understand timescale and other involvement.

 

[hotponyshoes]

If you are thinking about having somebody else make them for you then you need to get an idea of volume as prices drop off as the number goes up.
Ie. It might cost you £100 each to have 5 made, £40 each to have 100 made and £5 each for 2500 of them.

As daedalusminos says, how much you can invest will also play a part..
A mould for laying up carbon fibre ones might cost you £250 to make.
Then the materials might cost £20 for each one and the labour £25 for each.
You might be limited to making one a day with that.
You might spend £1000 on a mold and be able to make 4 a day but the material and labour costs won't change much.

Or, spend £10k on an injection mould and they might cost you 25p each in materials £1.50 in labour and be able to make 500+ a day.

When you say "mass production" what sort of numbers exactly are you hoping for?

Initial investment also includes how much you are prepared to hold in stock, ie. Would you be happy to order 1000 in one go and them another 1000 once you have sold the first lot, or do you want to start with getting 10 of them, doubling your money, then ordering 20 once the first 10 have sold?
Cheaper way to start but it can take a long time to actually make any profit that way..

 

[Barking Mat]

I'd go for carbon fibre, relatively easy to do once you've got the moulds(s).

That's what the local racing company do.

 

[Maker]

I assume by bike you mean motorbike? I don't think you'd sell many mudguards to road cyclists. Actually, at three hundred quid I can't see them selling to anyone.

You can't mass produce 3D printing, it's not worth thinking about. A 3D printed mudguard would last about five minutes anyway. Having said that, I don't think carbon is the answer either.

Are you thinking of making these parts yourself or outsourcing them? Even the easiest possible process, there's no way I'd want to do it a thousand times, I got bored machining six chamfered ends on some 1/4" pins this morning. If you're outsourcing it, injection moulding has got to be the way to go.

Carbon fibre as most people know it (Hand layup, either wet, prepreg or resin infusion) might be easy, but it's slow, expensive and labour intensive, there's no way you're mass producing anything that way. Reinforcement needs cutting by hand, resin needs mixing by hand, prepreg needs storing in a freezer and curing in an oven, etc etc. It's only viable for things like bike frames where manufacturers have enough capital, and enough markup on the finished product, to cut reinforcement with a plotter, mix resins mechanically and lay it all up in a country with less stringent labour laws and cure 100 parts at a time in an autoclave the size of a house. Resin transfer moulding would be the ideal process if you really wanted carbon fibre, but that's essentially even more expensive injection moulding, so you may as well just get them made in plastic.

Is it a shape that could be pressed out of sheet material? That's probably the fastest, lowest effort, lowest cost-of-entry option. Get a tool machined (Or fabricate one yourself if it's simple enough?), get alu blanks from a laser cutter and you just have to line them up under a tool and press go. 30 second cycle time is probably achievable and you could churn out a thousand in 8 very boring hours.

 

[tom2207]

Id be exploring the market very very carefully first ,,, 300 quid is a lot of cash for a mudguard , even lindberg fantastic plastic costs less , so it would need to be very special to justify the outlay.
I wouldnt pay 300 for a mudguard for any of my bikes .

 

[Bluemotion]

@hotponyshoes I’ll be starting slow with very low numbers as I’m not in a rush. Some people need to walk first then run and that will be me. I’m going to farm majority of it out as I’ve always spent my precious time making every single item with no quality ’me’ time and I’ve had enough of that now. This is currently a sideline. I’m one of those that likes to generate something, get it going well then pass it on as I like the adventure.

@Maker yes like you I couldn’t repeat anything more than a dozen of something complicated as I’d lose the will to live too. This item is for a premium motorcycle. The type that owners spend a fortune on and get ****. Well mine is also expensive but for once it will NOT be the usual **** but an elegant functional item.
My imediate question is the cost of building a mould for either carbon fibre or plastic injection which ever is cost effective. It’s something I’ve never done as im a ‘tin Basher’ by trade. As for 3d printing it was just a passing thought that someone chucked at me but I’ve never used nor seen one so I really don’t know an about them but from what people posted it’s a very slow boat to China that’ll sink.

 

[DAPPH]

Can you make a two die cast metal type mould and find a pourable material to put inside the mould ..use centrifugal spinner to dissipate it through out the mould .

If it works you might find a 3D guy who can take lots of pictures and mill out a two part mould in steel or aluminium .

 

[Bluemotion]

Never actually made a mould but in this case I want a symetrical professional job as it reflects the end product

 

[Bluemotion]

Here is the mudguard so far…

 

[cr500dom]

You could 3D print that in volume using SAF technology with no tooling costs
Comparable cost overall with injection moulding but no need to amortise injection mould tools over the production run.
And if you want to tweak the design it’s easy.
You’d have some post processing to do, vapour smoothing or prep and paint but it’s all now possible.
You will be subbing it out though as the printer investment will be well into 6 figures.

 

[PhillipM]

Yep, I'd guess anyone saying 3d prints would fall apart for something like this has never really looked at or made anything from it. 3d printing is fine for what you want, the problem with printing is that although it saves you much in the way of up front costs, it is very expensive both in money and time per unit. Nylon or PC sintered parts the size of that mudguard could easily be 100-200 per part depending on quantity and thicknesses.

I'd be looking at moulds and fibreglass or carbon tbh

 

[Bluemotion]

I’m still undecided. I think I’d have to use 100 units wether it’s close to what I need or not as a benchmark for costs.

 

[stuvy]

Yep, I'd guess anyone saying 3d prints would fall apart for something like this has never really looked at or made anything from it. 3d printing is fine for what you want, the problem with printing is that although it saves you much in the way of up front costs, it is very expensive both in money and time per unit. Nylon or PC sintered parts the size of that mudguard could easily be 100-200 per part depending on quantity and thicknesses.

I'd be looking at moulds and fibreglass or carbon tbh

Ask me what we have at work…

 

[PhillipM]

Is it an SLS printer that can do nylon or polycarb blends?
Because there's plenty of end-use parts already on production automobiles made like that for small volume or options.