Adding an external wire feeder.

[GTD]

I have a Cebora Revolution Combi 130 turbo which is a Gas/No-Gas version of the Pocket Turbo.
I got it cheap as it had a broken spool holder, missing handle, torch trigger, torch hanger and regulator, non working fan...

The Combi has a slightly different pcb to the other models, uses a two wire torch switch and the contactor switches the + torch feed unlike the others that switch the - return.

I've oiled the fan bearings and now the fan works but I am going to add a 120x38mm 240 V AC fan. I'm thinking of adding a IEC-C20 Inlet socket so I can remove the fixed power cable and switch cables between a 13A 3 pin domestic UK plug and 16A Ceeform blue plug depending where I am using the welder. I will fit a rear panel mounted fuseholder to the inlet so the welder is protected when using a 16A supply.

I was going to do a euro torch conversion and bought a Trafimet Ergoplus 4m MB15 type torch but whilst I was looking for a socket, spool holder and gas solenoid I managed to get a Cebora JawFeed (Art 1428) for a Jaguar 203 (Art 584) I got the torch and feeder for around the same cost as a universal euro torch conversion kit.

The wire feeder is the same width and depth as the Revolution Combi 130 Turbo so I've now removed the torch from the welder and I'm going to make up a trolley for them so the JawFeed will sit on top of the welder.

I'll fit a male dinse panel connector to the front of the wire feeder and a male to female cable from the feeder to the welder for welding current and a 6 core cable for wire feeder motor (24V DC), solenoid (24V DC) and torch trigger.

Hopefully the welder will be able to power the bigger wire feed motor.

The feeder has wire rollers for .6, .8/.9, 1 and 1.2 mm wire but my welder will only be able to use .6-.9 wire I'd have thought.

 

[Daz1968]

Looks good, but usually a wire feed unit has its own controller board for the motor and gas solenoid, usually just needs a power supply and it operates the contactor in the welder via control wires. I did similar with an old welder of mine and it worked very well although didn't look as neat as yours

 

[GTD]

Thanks, neatness was just a lucky gamble, I was going to hack up the feeder and use the parts inside my welder but thought this would be simpler and easier and both units could be returned to standard.

No controller in this wire feeder its a "dumb" slave unit having only a 5kΩ variable resistor to take over from the variable resistor on the main welder. The motor is controlled by the pcb in the main welder it just switches over when you change instead of the internal on the welders it is designed to work with.

The feeder should have a weird cable (art 1324/1324-20) one end has a male euro torch plug and 9? pin round male connector, the other end a combined gas/weld current fitting and a round 10 pin male connector. I didn't get this cable with the feeder.

I've now looked how weld current and shielding gas are supplied. It uses a combined union the outer of the union supplying the power so the cable lug for the euro torch is bolted to the gas solenoid. I'm going to replace that fitting with a dinse socket as its the same shape hole in the casing.

 

[GTD]

Took apart the wire feeder to get a look at the connector, I had Googled 10 pin Cebora connector but didn't want to pay £30> for a plastic connector.

I browsed through the RS catalogue and it looked like a ITT/Cannon JC series connector so I unscrewed the connector and it is a JC2A1610S socket so the cable needs a JC6A1610P plug RS Stock No. 297-6577 Mfr. Part No. 127039-0007. This is 1/3rd the cost of a plastic connector elsewhere and its a aluminium bodied connector so much more robust.

ITT CANNON - JC6A16-10P - PLUG, CABLE, SIZE 16, 10WAY, PIN
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=2083493

I might add a JC series socket and plug for removing the cable linking the wire feeder to my welder yet, it would only need to be a 3 or 4 pin one as I'm not using the wire feeders variable resistor but I haven't decided yet. I'll probably just make up a cable to the PCB connector and feed it through a grommet using the hole in the back for the gas hose for now.

I'm going to try adding a smoothing capacitor and bleed resistor to see if that improves the welds produced.

BHC COMPONENTS - ALS31A473MF063 CAP, ALU ELEC, 47000UF, 63V, SCREW
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1572905

TE CONNECTIVITY / CGS - THS2550RJ RESISTOR, AL CLAD, 25W 50R 5%
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1259423

I'll try a small 100-200 uF capacitor across the wire feed motor terminals to smooth the DC from the second bridge rectifier I've added to isolate the wire feeder circuitry from the main smoothing capacitor to prevent motor run on.

I'm using a B5 cased bridge rectifier for ease of installation as I can bolt it to the chassis of the welder, same reason for using a stud mount cap and aluminium heat sinked resistor hopefully I might be able to fit them in the direct path of the cooling air from the fan as the 120x38mm fan takes up less space between the casing and the choke/transformer.

I wonder if its worth adding a capacitor to the gas solenoid to keep the shielding gas going for a second after the torch trigger is released?

I've figured out a rough circuit diagram for connecting the wire feed to the welders pcb.

 

[Wedg1e]

I wouldn't bother making the mains cable interchangeable; what we do at work is fit a 16A Commando line plug to the equipment's mains lead then make up an adapter using a Commando line socket to a 3-pin plug and a foot of 3-core. Then you just plug the mains cable into the adapter if you need to run from domestic supply and all you're carrying around is an extra foot of cable rather than two long mains leads.

I would have thought gas post-flow would be a good idea... see if you can work out how to do pre-flow as well

 

[Wedg1e]

I have a PortaMIG wire feed unit (bought from a forum member), I thought of slaving it off my big Oxford 300 (bought from another forum member ) so that the Oxford could sit in the corner leaving just the lightweight wire feeder to be hauled around the floor... but the two use different voltages for supply and control so the mods would be more trouble than enough given how infrequently I do any welding. Bit of a bu99er given that both units were built in the same York factory...

 

[Daz1968]

It's not difficult, just find out what voltage the feeder needs then either find voltage inside welder or add another small transformer inside to feed the unit.

 

[GTD]

Shame they aren't compatible Wedg1e, but they should be adaptable.

I'm lucky the motor voltage is the same though I was going to use a 240 VAC gas solinoid for a euro torch conversion I was planning for before the jawfeed came along.

I'm just going to weld up a trolley for them out of angle and box section with supports for a pub size gas bottle and have the feeder bolted to the frame above the welder using the rivnuts used for the wire feeders handle.

I'm using it as a stronger feeder rather than a remote. The wire feed motor looks a lot better in the external feeder, the internal one looks like its out of a kids toy compared.

Was going to use the IEC C20 inlet as I have a spare panel mount C20 lying around and a 3m, 16a commando to C19 cable. Fancied being able to switch between power outlets using C19 cables. They wont take up space as they will be stored in the welders side panel where the spool holder and wire feeder would be if I hadn't decided to see if I could fit the stronger external wire feeder.

I do tend to get carried away with a project and sometimes end up over engineering it, but I like the idea of a removable mains cable in case it gets damaged. Originally I was going to fit a commando inlet but that would be quite large on a little welder.

Pre and post weld shielding gas was easy on my old snap-mig 130 turbo as it had the original plastic trigger replaced with a piece of sheet aluminium shaped and bent to fit with a plastic number plate bolt and nut pressing against the gas valve/switch in the torch. The plastic numberplate bolt was used as the gas valve was live as it was a live torch.

Its been a long time since I did electronics at college but its slowly coming back. Delaying the motor a little until after the gas solenoid has opened would be good, just mind is blank at the moment.

 

[Jim Davey]

It never ceases to amaze me how far people will go in an effort to improve something not very good, only to end up with up to something about half as good as what they should've got in the first place.
Fair play for the effort, but when there are better, smoother, euro torch equipped machines already out there for not much money, it does raise the question; Why?

 

[GTD]

Because I like to tinker with stuff, modify and improve.

My first welder was a Sip migmate 130t, less said about that the better. I used it once to transfer the front slam panel from a rear ended rover 214 to my mates 220td which was still going strong 10 years later until the diesel pump started to fail.

I then bought a Snap-mig 130 turbo which is the same as this except the PCB is slightly different for the polarity switch. I used it for little MOT welding jobs and welding exhausts together for mates, silly things like chopping a back box off a RST to put on a mk6 Escort gti and making decat pipes for various cars.

Until a so called ex-mate borrowed it and my Speedglas 9100xx flexview and sold it for who knows how little to get some coke. All that was there when his kid brother opened the garage was my now empty "pub" gas bottle and regulator...

So I had to start again, bought a battered flexview and a spares or repairs Cebora Revolution Combi which has reversible polarity, I had planned to modify the snap mig for reversible polarity.

I fixed up the Cebora so it works and fancied adding a euro torch, I got a reconditioned torch and was going to order a euro socket and solenoid when I found the JawFeed for sale so I checked out the manual and schematic and decided to get it to cannibalise the parts to fit my little mig welder. When it arrived I thought its a bit big and would be better and easier to mount it on top of the mig as it has the same footprint.

 

[Jim Davey]

Like I said, that's a lot of effort to put into a Snap-On 130 turbo which although not a bad machine sets no benchmark for quality either. Your efforts, time and electrical know how could've been much better spent resurrecting an old Murex Tradesmig or something of that ilk that would've had a decent transformer, fan, rectifier and a euro to start with.
I know your time costs you nothing etc but it's what you get at the end that counts.

 

[GTD]

I wouldn't mind fixing up an old Murex or similar but haven't seen anything available locally when I was looking.

I enjoy messing around with old stuff and getting it to work. My mate picked up an fully dismantled incomplete 95 Deavinson Sprint kart and I've been rebuilding it, put a few weekends in and its almost complete now, just needs the different bearings for the stub axles as we didn't have the originals so had to buy others but the bolts they pivot on are too thick, but I measured them up and used a bearing calc to find the right ones to make them fit.

Project was put on hold due to not having a welder and other commitments. Need to fabricate the nerf bars and front bumper mounts and a few other bits to finish it. I also need to tune the two Honda GX160's its going to run they run but could do with the carbs rebuilding. Started building it a couple of years ago but the project got sidetracked hope to complete it before the winter now I have a welder again.

 

[Jim Davey]

I know where you're coming from with the Kart, I bought a dismantled Rotax Max 125 Kart in a box that had been dismantled for 3 years and left to rust in a shed. I had to do quite a bit of chopping around to make it fit the new regs at the time. That and re welding the chassis a few times sorting crash damage (I don't remember Kart racing being a contact sport, obviously a few things changed in my fifteen odd year long hiatus) anyway, I probably should've walked away and bought a newer more together one, but there was something smugly satisfying about beating people driving this or last seasons Kart in a rusty old nail I rescued from a shed.

 

[Wedg1e]

It's not difficult, just find out what voltage the feeder needs then either find voltage inside welder or add another small transformer inside to feed the unit.

Aye I know, been in and had a look but they're not even close. Anyway it's not as if it'd solve some problem; I don't do much welding and at the last count I have three MIG sets so fixing an issue that doesn't exist isn't high on my list of priorities