adjustable brackets for plastic guttering

[foy9999]

I do gutter repairs/cleaning for a living and have seen most types old and new but this week called to a job where newish gutters (2011 Marley Clipmaster with Polypipe brackets) had been installed very badly on a very old building.

I first looked at it in the dark and could see that there must be several reasons for all the joints coming apart. I initially suspected brackets not well aligned on wavy walls.

Anyway it turns out that the gutters were actually hung from rise & fall type rafter brackets with special plastic fittings that slide up and down the rafter brackets. The normal plastic fascia brackets screw onto the other plastic fitting.

Actually a very useful thing I'd like to use again.

Only problem is the gutters need to be taken off every time you want to adjust the fittings. On a 4-sided building this is obviously a major PitA and might explain why they were not adjusted correctly in the first place and had now all seized up.

Anyway my question really is where can you get these? There are no marking on them but am pretty sure they were made by Polypipe as they match the Polypipe brackets perfectly but not so with a couple of Marley brackets that the installers also used.

I've searched Google etc but can't see anything

one of the last remaining wash-houses for a Glasgow tenement

new guttering not a success

brackets at odd angle putting strain on corner pieces

angle of rafter brackets needed changed to suit angle of roof

let's start again

front view showing unbranded plastic fitting which allows vertical adjustment of gutter brackets

rear view

Polypipe brackets were used

Polypipe brackets fit the grey adapter perfectly

Marley brackets not a good fit

neither are Floplast


NB I reckon the reason the guys used these was to avid having to drill for approx 20 brackets in clay bricks. They didn't fit anything at the corners and they sagged badly over the years. Today I was putting in extra brackets direct to the brick and it took an age to drill them for plugs

 

[Earlyrover]

BES in birmingham stock them, top and side hung

BES.co.uk | Next Day Delivery On 15,000 + Plumbing Supplies

Order Universal Rafter Arms from our gas and plumbing supplies range online at BES. Low prices. Free next day delivery available. 15k+ Products. P/N: 12458

www.bes.co.uk

 

[500e]

Get in early! To be discontinued

 

[foy9999]

BES in birmingham stock them, top and side hung

BES.co.uk | Next Day Delivery On 15,000 + Plumbing Supplies

Order Universal Rafter Arms from our gas and plumbing supplies range online at BES. Low prices. Free next day delivery available. 15k+ Products. P/N: 12458

www.bes.co.uk

Yip. They are identical and made by Polypipe as I expected.

Pretty expensive at about £10 each. There were 14 on the building. Could have done with another 8 to support the corners. I assumed they didn't go out to the corners as would have needed to trim the arms down but perhaps they didn't want to buy even more of them.

Anyway. Thanks for the info

 

[gaz1]

this is how they should have looked but a cheapo customer and plumber didnt want to buy them



so they fitted the git to install brackets that are no good and a swine to adjust

 

[northwest]

I don't know about the brackets but the picture of the wash house is pretty amazing, I would bet it and the surrounding yard didn 't look anything like that back in the day. When I was quite young (12 or 13) my parents let me wander the streets of Edinburgh for hours on end and I used to take many photographs on my way around the city. I have no idea where they are now but they would be interesting if I could find them, as a small boy I went places where the "average tourist" would never venture.

 

[Agroshield]

Get in early! To be discontinued

The BES ones may be, but it has provided us a name: 'gutter rafter bracket'. Search for these and the metal bit at least is easy to find.

Alternative supplier for the plastic bit:

Side Fix Rafter Bracket | Guttering | Eurocell

Side Fix Rafter Bracket, Guttering, Eurocell

www.eurocell.co.uk

It looks like the plastic bit is somewhat of a kludge, to allow non-centre fixing plastic brackets to be used with the metal arms. Most pictures you see of the metal arm, the plastic clip has a centre hole and it is that hole that secures it to the metal bracket (e.g. https://www.guttering-expert.co.uk/metal-top-rafter-brackets-shed-roof.html).

The plastic bit would be easy to make out of black delrin sheet - a square with a counterbored hole for the bolt into the metal bracket and two pilot holes for self-tappers for the plastic bracket (or leave blank so it fits any brand). Deluxe version would have a metal female thread insert instead of the counterbored hole then you could fit the plastic bracket on the ground and secure from the rear (use a hex head bolt and then you can reach up and behind the gutter with a spanner. Screw head no good in this situation).

 

[foy9999]

this is how they should have looked but a cheapo customer and plumber didnt want to buy them

View attachment 375939

so they fitted the git to install brackets that are no good and a swine to adjust

I don't know about the brackets but the picture of the wash house is pretty amazing, I would bet it and the surrounding yard didn 't look anything like that back in the day. When I was quite young (12 or 13) my parents let me wander the streets of Edinburgh for hours on end and I used to take many photographs on my way around the city. I have no idea where they are now but they would be interesting if I could find them, as a small boy I went places where the "average tourist" would never venture.

That's really interesting northwest

The residents told me theirs is the only one that survives in the area.

The back lane leading to it is fully cobbled still. The cobles are irregular shapes, unlike the roads there. You can still see the cobbles at the edge of the tarmac.

The closes are also totally original.

Pity you can't find your pics. I was in a loft today \and found an ex-ex-ex residents family albums from 30s to 60s

 

[foy9999]

The BES ones may be, but it has provided us a name: 'gutter rafter bracket'. Search for these and the metal bit at least is easy to find.

Alternative supplier for the plastic bit:

Side Fix Rafter Bracket | Guttering | Eurocell

Side Fix Rafter Bracket, Guttering, Eurocell

www.eurocell.co.uk

It looks like the plastic bit is somewhat of a kludge, to allow non-centre fixing plastic brackets to be used with the metal arms. Most pictures you see of the metal arm, the plastic clip has a centre hole and it is that hole that secures it to the metal bracket (e.g. https://www.guttering-expert.co.uk/metal-top-rafter-brackets-shed-roof.html).

The plastic bit would be easy to make out of black delrin sheet - a square with a counterbored hole for the bolt into the metal bracket and two pilot holes for self-tappers for the plastic bracket (or leave blank so it fits any brand). Deluxe version would have a metal female thread insert instead of the counterbored hole then you could fit the plastic bracket on the ground and secure from the rear (use a hex head bolt and then you can reach up and behind the gutter with a spanner. Screw head no good in this situation).

You read my mind Argoshield

As soon as I was armed with the correct name (not rise & fall as i said) I searched online and see that companies like Floplast also do them.

Interestingly they just use a scew with wing-nut. There's no plastic piece at back

 

[8ob]

Not sure if these are still made, gutter brackets on an old house I had were steel stakes that drove into a perk.Set up the corners and pull a string line through, follow through with these stakes hammering them in wherever there was a decent joint. Very sturdy.

Bob

Edit: these

 

[Cobbler]

I know those as rise & fall drive in gutter brackets

 

[gaz1]

I know those as rise & fall drive in gutter brackets

i know them as cast iron gutter brackets

 

[8ob]

i know them as cast iron gutter brackets

Mine were for plastic gutter, now we have a name courtesy of @Cobbler they are easy to find

0T914- Osma 112mm Half Round Rise & Fall Bracket

oLength: 33mm Width: 90mm Depth: 131mm Weight: 0.042kg Material: PVCu

gutters.co.uk

 

[bricol]

Watching a local installer - set up the string line - didn't realise he was lifting the string with each bracket.

I used mig-wire with a whacking great weight on it and was very careful when I re-positioned my gutter - which now stays a lot clearer of silt etc as the water actually flows down it.

 

[foy9999]

Watching a local installer - set up the string line - didn't realise he was lifting the string with each bracket.

I used mig-wire with a whacking great weight on it and was very careful when I re-positioned my gutter - which now stays a lot clearer of silt etc as the water actually flows down it.

Yip. Biggest problem I find with gutters is not running correctly. Almost all of them run backwards. You clear the gutters and send customers pics and they are still full of muddy water which looks bad.

A lot of them are fitted so badly that water actually runs off the wrong end.

I've had cases where I've had to drop the downpipe 3" or more to achieve correct run

 

[lexi]

Course they are fitted badly..........that is what gives you work. It is common to reduce the size of the cast iron downpipe to drop your plastic running outlet lower.........thank god for angle grinders.
Worked with and came across all those adjustable rafter brackets. Most were from Polypipe and other independent companies. For that stuff, I always used John Cameron in Glasgow. Great for cast iron and lots of unusual stuff. Apart from run, I betcha you come across plastic gutters that have moved out of the rubber seal at unions. Cut and fitted short of the mark. The beggars shrink and move over time. Not keeping the spacing of fascia brackets to 0.8m adds to this. I put mine in less than that. It makes for a stronger job that will hold snow better and it is only pennies for extra brackets
Local Everest rep used to give me jobs to do under their g,tee. Their plastic/vinyl system was very good. It was a quality Hepworth system, I think, made to their own spec. It was the fitters that were the problem........sheesh.! There was the ally sheet OG type, ally cast OG, (alumask) fibreglass OG, Cast Iron half round and OG, then the plastic systems ( They are actually vinyl) Oh what fun! Favourite time to clean gutters was first frosts. You could get a gauging trowel under the ice and lift the whole sheet of frozen dirt out, to leave gutter clean as a whistle It'll be freezing in EK at the moment.........know it well.

 

[foy9999]

Course they are fitted badly..........that is what gives you work. It is common to reduce the size of the cast iron downpipe to drop your plastic running outlet lower.........thank god for angle grinders.
Worked with and came across all those adjustable rafter brackets. Most were from Polypipe and other independent companies. For that stuff, I always used John Cameron in Glasgow. Great for cast iron and lots of unusual stuff. Apart from run, I betcha you come across plastic gutters that have moved out of the rubber seal at unions. Cut and fitted short of the mark. The beggars shrink and move over time. Not keeping the spacing of fascia brackets to 0.8m adds to this. I put mine in less than that. It makes for a stronger job that will hold snow better and it is only pennies for extra brackets
Local Everest rep used to give me jobs to do under their g,tee. Their plastic/vinyl system was very good. It was a quality Hepworth system, I think, made to their own spec. It was the fitters that were the problem........sheesh.! There was the ally sheet OG type, ally cast OG, (alumask) fibreglass OG, Cast Iron half round and OG, then the plastic systems ( They are actually vinyl) Oh what fun! Favourite time to clean gutters was first frosts. You could get a gauging trowel under the ice and lift the whole sheet of frozen dirt out, to leave gutter clean as a whistle It'll be freezing in EK at the moment.........know it well.

Yeah. I agree with practically everything you've said and am taking a day off today as it was -8 degrees when I got up. Got 2 slating jobs to do and it's a waste of time as the slates are all stuck together. Most of my work is in Glasgow (older properties) so if Camerons is still around I'll need to take a look as I do it all mail-order or used from Gumtree etc.

It's true what you say about the frozen gutters tho. If you give the plastic ones a bang with your hand you can sometimes dislodge it all in one go

I usually do my brackets about 600mm. I did one in EK a few months back and he neighbours had had theirs done. There was about 7 brackets on in total. I used 11 iirc. few quid more and makes a big difference

Also on the most recent job the gutters were very shy in the corner-bends. Might have shrunk. Instead of replacing the gutter I added a union in the middle. Only gives you another 1", or mb 2" tho.

a few extra brackets - 600mm centres?

union added can give you another couple of inches if gutters have shrunk or were cut too short

all corners were popping out


One of my worst jobs was a tall house, out past Maryhill, with no access to back garden so had to manoeuvre ladders thru hall and kitchen and no way of getting out onto roof from loft. The building was only 10 years old and the fascias were rotten due to the gutters being installed so badly. I lowered the drainpipe approx 3" to get the run correct

townhouse with no access to garden from rear or roof from inside

downpipe was about 3" higher than gutter run

 

[foy9999]

I don't know about the brackets but the picture of the wash house is pretty amazing, I would bet it and the surrounding yard didn 't look anything like that back in the day. When I was quite young (12 or 13) my parents let me wander the streets of Edinburgh for hours on end and I used to take many photographs on my way around the city. I have no idea where they are now but they would be interesting if I could find them, as a small boy I went places where the "average tourist" would never venture.

Forgot to post pic of the irregular cobbles in the lanes at back of these tenements (Nithsdale Road, G41). I reckon they are original

 

[Cobbler]

Yeah. I agree with practically everything you've said and am taking a day off today as it was -8 degrees when I got up. Got 2 slating jobs to do and it's a waste of time as the slates are all stuck together. Most of my work is in Glasgow (older properties) so if Camerons is still around I'll need to take a look as I do it all mail-order or used from Gumtree etc.

It's true what you say about the frozen gutters tho. If you give the plastic ones a bang with your hand you can sometimes dislodge it all in one go

I usually do my brackets about 600mm. I did one in EK a few months back and he neighbours had had theirs done. There was about 7 brackets on in total. I used 11 iirc. few quid more and makes a big difference

Also on the most recent job the gutters were very shy in the corner-bends. Might have shrunk. Instead of replacing the gutter I added a union in the middle. Only gives you another 1", or mb 2" tho.

a few extra brackets - 600mm centres?

union added can give you another couple of inches if gutters have shrunk or were cut too short

all corners were popping out


One of my worst jobs was a tall house, out past Maryhill, with no access to back garden so had to manoeuvre ladders thru hall and kitchen and no way of getting out onto roof from loft. The building was only 10 years old and the fascias were rotten due to the gutters being installed so badly. I lowered the drainpipe approx 3" to get the run correct

townhouse with no access to garden from rear or roof from inside

downpipe was about 3" higher than gutter run

That’s going to be pig of a job when that felt wants replacing with access like that!