Any lead "Body Solder" experts here?

[cardiffrob]

Short version of my question....does the tinning chemical need to be stabilised/washed before the lead goes on top of it or does an application of lead seal any chemical reaction in?

The instructions with the lead kit don't mention washing away the acid but I've noticed that exposed areas of unleaded steel get a flash of rust. Do I neeeeed to remove the lead or can I leave it as is with just some rust converter/sanding to clean the bare steel?

(Morris Minor door skin repair)

 

[Engineer]

http://freespace.virgin.net/tommy.sandham/leading.htm provides some useful info. The best type of flux to use also incorporates solder, which when heated also tins the surface as well.

Lead loading is not porous (like body filler), and you will not have problems with corrosion if its been properly done.

 

[cardiffrob]

Strange. He only mentions getting the 'flux' off after all the work is complete. I left it 18 hours before I retruned to the finished leadwork and the doorskin was dark orange. Lots of scotchbrite, lots of rust eater and lots of elbow grease. I'll wash with water later.

Thanks.

 

[sprayerDrew]

Are you using a propane gun as a naked propane flame on bare steel flash rusts like crazy. This is why painting with propane is a big no no as there is soo much moisture in propane

 

[cardiffrob]

Hand-held torch with butane/propane mix. I assume a hot air gun will not give enough heat for the job? I can't use O/A for insurance reasons.

 

[Chipper]

Just now came across this by chance, surfing around RnS
http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/tech-features/lead-loading-body-soldering-how-6901
Hope it's some use.

 

[cardiffrob]

Cheers, guys. I've done the 'google' bit but there seems to be little mention of acid removal. Ho-hum. I've had a crack at cleaning it off but am back to work at 3AM so it is time to get ready for bed. Tomorrow I'll see if the rust comes back.

PS TIG-brazed some brass bath fittings today with SIFBRONZE 8. Worked a treat!! Not elegant but quite acceptable to fix a £250 shower tap selector.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/foggythomas/tigbraze1.jpg

 

[danelectro]

I wish I could do lead work, it's an art to be sure!!

I worked with a guy many years ago who was pretty damned good at it, and if my memory serves me correctly, he would apply the flux, heat it up with a large blowtorch, then wipe away the flux with a lint free cloth leaving the base metal very shining and clean, then he'd do his lead work.

maybe someone else can add to it!!

 

[mike os]

if using acid pickle or most fluxes you need to wash it off and as the metal has now been thoroughly cleaned and degreased, treat as appropriate

 

[brightspark]

its the same principle of wiping lead joints on pipes and underground lead covered armoured cable . cleansiness and fluxed using a steady heat on the stick of lead and job using a leather wipe u can build up the job without melting the lead all over the place and form to shape none of the modern plumbers or cable jointers ever do it now its a lost skill

 

[cumbriasteve]

I remember the local blacksmiths son renovating an MGB roadster and he used this method, was fascinating to watch and a restoration out of this world..then he sold it, as is the case with many..the fun's in doing it.

 

[graffian]

Strange. He only mentions getting the 'flux' off after all the work is complete. I left it 18 hours before I retruned to the finished leadwork and the doorskin was dark orange. Lots of scotchbrite, lots of rust eater and lots of elbow grease. I'll wash with water later.

Thanks.

I tried lead filling years ago but, I really didn't have a clue. I recently had to do something and having seen a yank car program a few years ago, I thought I would give it a serious go. I didn't find it to hard.
I went out a few hours after filling one bit and where the flux had dripped it was rusty! So from then on I scrubbed the lead work and anywhere acid/flux could have got, with neat truck wash when it cooled down.

 

[Engineer]

"Update: You MUST always wash the completed lead job with clean water to remove any acid left over from the tinning process. If this is not done, it can "kill" paint which is subsequently applied over the lead repair. Thanks to Terry Burville and several others for pointing this out!"

When you have finished the leading simply remove acid based flux with water as outlined above. Lead work is very easy, but a lot of people have problems due to using the wrong type of solder, which simply melts and blobs onto the floor, rather than remaining in a plastic like state when it gets to a certain heat, which makes it very easy to spread over the area that needs to be leaded.

 

[Chipper]

Chap in the link I posted is a bodyshop guy, says panel wipe then water iirc. You can trust what he says.

Just remembered, I have an old American book about kustom cars, with a body-leading article - says thinners first (for the tallow) then soapy water, then water. Same as RnS article basically.
Makes sense. Don't really want wax or acid around when it comes to paint.
If I can get the scanner to work I'll post it, the b&w pics prob won't come out well but the text should be OK.

 

[langy]

Watch this video and learn off a master http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ_85fp1avs&feature=player_embedded#at=21

 

[danelectro]

Love it, what a fantastic guy he is....is the cigar optional or a must have??!!!!

Watch this video and learn off a master http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ_85fp1avs&feature=player_embedded#at=21

 

[graffian]

Watch this video and learn off a master http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ_85fp1avs&feature=player_embedded#at=21

Hopefully I don't have to do any more, but there again
I clearly need the practice;-)
He was using 25:75. I tried 30:70 first, didn't get on with that at all.
I tried 25:75 and didn't like that a lot better, I found 20:80 much easier
to use.

 

[Chickenjohn]

Cheers, guys. I've done the 'google' bit but there seems to be little mention of acid removal. Ho-hum. I've had a crack at cleaning it off but am back to work at 3AM so it is time to get ready for bed. Tomorrow I'll see if the rust comes back.

PS TIG-brazed some brass bath fittings today with SIFBRONZE 8. Worked a treat!! Not elegant but quite acceptable to fix a £250 shower tap selector.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/foggythomas/tigbraze1.jpg

I've lead loaded a few Morris Minor repair panels. The easiest way to get rid of the flash fine surface rust after the tinning paint is to treat the area with 5-10% phosphoric acid solution which will dissolve the rust, and stabilise the surface. Then I sand with 40 grit and etch prime before the final filler skim before priming.

 

[Chickenjohn]

Another top tip- with the price of body solder these days, put a piece of cardboard underneath the work piece when you are body filing the solder (as in the video) and collect the fillings. These can be placed in an angle iron and heated with the blow lamp and melted into a new solder stick!

 

[cardiffrob]

Thanks, guys.

Washed the flash rust with thinners, rubbed phosporic acid based rust converter into it with a scotchbrite pad and it was fine this morning. Looks like that combo works.