Bosch 10.8v/12v upgrade

[Screwdriver]

Bought some old dead batteries recently so I can replace the cells with 2600mAh units.

The case pops open easy enough and the gubbins slides out for an easy swap repair.

I bought some Samsung cells, these ones: 183471613330

I am simply assuming they should be ok because getting the precise spec is proving fruitless. The 18650 type (18x65mm) is very common but each type will require a specific voltage for charging which may be a problem for a "smart" charger. Not all Li-On batteries use the same chemistry so while I am confident these will work, I have no way to prove it without first doing it...

I particularly wanted "tabbed" cells because some of these Li-on batteries are extremely flammable and I don't want to solder directly on the cap - no matter how many YouTubers seem not to care.

If it works, I have another dead battery I can use to make a video "how to". It's not really something to play around with without a bit of care, they can easily dump 20-30 Amps into anything you short them out with!

For example, you wouldn't want to casually measure the length with a pair of calipers.

 

[eddie49]

Without knowing the specifics of the charger(s) that you will be using it's impossible to know for sure, but most chargers will stop when they detect the drop in charge current drawn by the battery at the end of the saturation charge part of the charge cycle.

 

[Screwdriver]

Well there's some good info here: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

No need for me to cut&paste, if anyone is interested it's a good technical resource and well worth a bookmark. I will be monitoring the voltage and temperature of these cells when I do the upgrade.

 

[J1nx]

I’m not sure on your choice of cell. The charging and cutoff will be fine for all modern, common 18650s, 4.2 full charge and 2.8-3v cutoff.

The problem with that cell is the discharge capability, that is a relatively low spec cell. The 30Q/VTC6 may have been better.

 

[Screwdriver]

I’m not sure on your choice of cell. The charging and cutoff will be fine for all modern, common 18650s, 4.2 full charge and 2.8-3v cutoff.

The problem with that cell is the discharge capability, that is a relatively low spec cell. The 30Q/VTC6 may have been better.

Yes I did double check and it's only 5A continuous. Only after I ordered them though...

I think you're right and I am attempting to cancel and order up some 20/30A jobbies if they make economic sense. I may have to eat my words regarding whether they are tabbed or not.

 

[Cyberprog]

I'm interested in how you get on, I've got a number of 10.8v batteries that are shagged now, even threw a few away! If I can easily re-cell them then that's brilliant!

 

[J1nx]

There is a guy on some forums that goes by the username ‘Mooch’ he tests a lot of cells and calls out any dodgy claims. Worth checking if your after that sort of discharge and high capacity because it will be limited, getting them tabbed may be difficult.

See Moochs recommendations here...
https://batterybro.com/collections/moochs-recommended/ampint_20-30

 

[Screwdriver]

Thanks I'll have a good look later. Need to confirm with the seller they are going to refund me and that it's not sent yet. They seem to want me to buy some more first which ain't gonna happen.

Obsessed over websites like that one for a while and went all fuzzy headed on eBay. There is a very similar high spec batt at that price from china so when that seller popped up in the UK I jumped head first. eBay is a minefield for misinformation, fakes, overseas sellers "from the UK", tabbed/untabbed/button...

I can see why I made that mistake buying an unsuitable unit: battery fatigue!

<edit> Got my refund, looking at the above website, brain almost full now...

 

[Screwdriver]

Well i bit the bullet and went for three Sony VTC6.

These bad boys: https://www.ecoluxshopdirect.co.uk/sony-vtc6-18650-3000mah-battery

Picture post to follow and if successful, a video how-to...

 

[hotponyshoes]

I would "think" the smart charger should be able to figure it out? My charger will charge anything from 2.0ah up to 8ah.
There might be some sort of circuitry built into my battries though?

Have you tried cross-reffing the cells you need with other bosch battery packs? I put a brand new 3.0ah pack in the for sale section the other day for 40quid with a charger.
Not suggesting you buy it as I have no idea if the cells are the same but if you could find ones that were you get 10 cells in a 18v pack so if you could buy one cheap enough might work out less than paying £6+ per cell and you would know they are at least cells to oem standard

 

[Cyberprog]

Well i bit the bullet and went for three Sony VTC6.

These bad boys: https://www.ecoluxshopdirect.co.uk/sony-vtc6-18650-3000mah-battery

Picture post to follow and if successful, a video how-to...

Let me know how you get on! Was it a type A or B tag you went with?

 

[Screwdriver]

I would "think" the smart charger should be able to figure it out? My charger will charge anything from 2.0ah up to 8ah.
There might be some sort of circuitry built into my battries though?

Have you tried cross-reffing the cells you need with other bosch battery packs? I put a brand new 3.0ah pack in the for sale section the other day for 40quid with a charger.
Not suggesting you buy it as I have no idea if the cells are the same but if you could find ones that were you get 10 cells in a 18v pack so if you could buy one cheap enough might work out less than paying £6+ per cell and you would know they are at least cells to oem standard

As J1nx suggests above, the "smart" bit is voltage detection and the charger(s) will zap a battery until it reaches a particular level then standby. Li-ion batteries hold their charge well but the charger will also monitor that and zap them again if you leave the battery in it long enough.

That's a great deal for anyone with an 18v system but I went with 12v. If those packs have 10 x single 18650 batteries each I might actually be interested in the dead ones, it's not a business plan I am hatching here though, I don't use this forum for buy-to-sell, maybe buy-to-restore though. But I lucked into some suitable donor packs for a system I already have and since they are here, it makes (some) sense to re-cell them for my own personal use.

Would be a shame to rob a good "new old stock" battery pack just for the cells when someone else on here might be able to use them. There is some value in them being from a trusted forum member but the secondhand market for batteries is somewhat fraught! Even the new batteries are mixed up among fakes so selling "good as new" batteries or home made re-celled units is not something I am planning to do to make money. It's more about re-using and recycling for me.

The circuitry is typically a resistor to manage the current draw and maximum charge rate and some battery packs also have a thermistor to shut down the battery output if it overheats. I think that's what vapers mean when they refer to "unmanaged" batteries, they remove the protection so that they can extract the maximum juice out of the battery.

Let me know how you get on! Was it a type A or B tag you went with?

I went for type "B" so that the tabs point away from each other. I will nip them off before soldering a wire onto the trimmed end. I seriously don't want to be soldering directly onto the cap because the heat will affect the internal structure which is highly flammable anyway. I can't stress enough how potentially dangerous it is messing with these marvels of modern chemistry. There's a LOT of amps in these tiny packages just waiting to get out and that might involve a ton of heat, flames and possibly an explosion!

That's why I am keen to video it.

 

[Screwdriver]

Just for the record, I fitted these batteries and they work a treat. I couldn't resist popping the top off the other pack (sans video sorry) and glad I did. At least one of the cells has rotted out and corroded the pack so badly they won't come out. Since I don't know of a 'safe" way to clamp one end in a vice (!) and pull the thing out, I probably better not film it. It has the capacity to go horribly, horribly wrong...

Hmm. Maybe I should film it, just in case.

 

[Cyberprog]

Just for the record, I fitted these batteries and they work a treat. I couldn't resist popping the top off the other pack (sans video sorry) and glad I did. At least one of the cells has rotted out and corroded the pack so badly they won't come out. Since I don't know of a 'safe" way to clamp one end in a vice (!) and pull the thing out, I probably better not film it. It has the capacity to go horribly, horribly wrong...

Hmm. Maybe I should film it, just in case.

If you can't be a good influence, at least be a horrible warning.

 

[dobbslc]

Get "medieval on its ****"

 

[Screwdriver]

Get "medieval on its ****"

I got lucky. There's three holes in the very base of the case. So I looked for something to poke it out with and found a flat bottom screw which threaded its way into the plastic and easily pushed out the cells. I made sure to disconnect the top cap first to avoid shorting. You gotta be careful with any metal tools around batteries.

All the cells are stone cold dead. At least one of them leaked and corroded the lot. Never mind, at least I have a good useable Bosch battery caddy for my amazing new GOP. Just need to save up for some new cells or wait for @hotponyshoes to drop in.

Meantime, if anyone else has a load of dead batteries, I'd be happy to take them off your hands. Needs to be a decent number because if the battery is dead, chances are most of the cells will be too. Bit like panning for gold, you got to shovel through a lot of dirt...

 

[angellonewolf]

ive never seen one of those batterys go pop (seen a cr2032 go and that went well) but seen a few pics where they exploded so would be very carfull on soldering them

when buying a battery for the boash drill that only needs one battery i phoned a guy on ebay cheak the one i was buying was right he said no you need this one as batterys for power tools so say need a higher discharge rate the differance in price was £4.50 and the one i so say needed was £5.99 so just paid it dont know if any of this was true but he could have tryed to get me to buy one that was a 10er ( at thsi point i would have said dont worry but 1.50 extra not worried about )

 

[Cyberprog]

ive never seen one of those batterys go pop (seen a cr2032 go and that went well) but seen a few pics where they exploded so would be very carfull on soldering them

when buying a battery for the boash drill that only needs one battery i phoned a guy on ebay cheak the one i was buying was right he said no you need this one as batterys for power tools so say need a higher discharge rate the differance in price was £4.50 and the one i so say needed was £5.99 so just paid it dont know if any of this was true but he could have tryed to get me to buy one that was a 10er ( at thsi point i would have said dont worry but 1.50 extra not worried about )

It's best when grouping your cells together to use cells all of the same capacity, otherwise you could wind up with charging and discharge issues.

 

[angellonewolf]

the drill i had was one of those small battery in the handle single cell ones so changing the 1 was all i needed to replace all that was in the driver

 

[Cyberprog]

the drill i had was one of those small battery in the handle single cell ones so changing the 1 was all i needed to replace all that was in the driver

Ah sorry, yeah, sounds like you got talked up a bit, but I guess more capacity helps!