Buy-fix-sell

[D.wilson94]

Been looking at buying a car from HBC or co-part and doing some repairs myself and obviously getting some that i cant do(mechanical) done elsewhere ,my friend is a painter so can get it painted at a good price ..i think theres money to be made,anyone else do this to make money and how did it go?

 

[dobbslc]

I used to do bikes and flog them on and made very good money , CBR600 non runner paid £750 spent less that £100 and flogged it for £2600, FZR1000 paid £750 fixed for £150 then sold for £1900! Both bikes were really nice and not bodged up. I did loads more over the years.....


Then Ebay came along and screwed it all up as everyone thinks they can do it so prices are stupid now for old rotters.
Selling them started to be a right pain in the **** too as we seem to have bred a generation of chancers!
Did a Vauxhall Frontera once that was fubar when I got it and I sold it on for a little profit. Didn't bother with anymore cars after that.
It's ok if you have the time and knowledge of what you're buying and what might be wrong with them before splashing the cash!

 

[CompoSimmonite]

Won't the V5 identify it as a write off which will affect value and put buyers off unless they know it's been professionally repaired ?

 

[stuvy]

Don’t buy it from auction if you want to make a profit

Go on faceache and buy a cheap fiesta, mop the paint clean the interior and sell it for a profit

Like my former boss at the age of 23 was a self made millionaire from car trading

 

[ukracer]

Won't the V5 identify it as a write off which will affect value and put buyers off unless they know it's been professionally repaired ?

That was our experience....

 

[hotponyshoes]

Won't the V5 identify it as a write off which will affect value and put buyers off unless they know it's been professionally repaired ?

It won't put buyers off if the price is right. 20-25% below market value and you will get plenty of interest (depending on what car it is obviously)
In fact you have to be careful you dont try and sell it too cheap as people just presume it's a scam.
There is also an active market of buyers that look specifically for repaired cars, have a look on ebay at the amount of cars with 'cat d' or 'cat n' etc in the listing title, it's often a selling point especially at auction as the bidders just presume they will be getting it for below market value and will bid away happily.

Making money out of it is another issue, if buying at auction you are up against a lot of people who know what they are doing and can price up the repairs and know where to get the parts. If you think you have won something cheap there is probably a good reason. Experience tells you what cars might have some very serious hidden damage from what looks like only light damage. Having said that I sometimes ignore a car that is going cheap simply because I know nothing about it and don't know what hidden damage it might have.
At auction you are also bidding against marque specialists (so they might only do Audi for example and they have a good stock of parts to repair and will buy anything knowing they will break it for spares if it turns out to be worse than thought)
You are also bidding against the guys that export to eastern Europe, repair at cheap labour rates then re-import with no marker on the v5 to sell at full market value.
The better bets at auction are the higher end motors but there are still a lot of bidders on these, mostly guys who buy, stick the spare wheel on the damaged corner and hide the damaged one underneath and weld up the steering rack and cable tie the bumper back on to make it look a lot better than it did before, add a couple of grand and stick it back up for sale as salvage on ebay.
Some of them go as far as stuffing blown airbags back into the steering wheel/seats and glueing/sewing them up!
They are often listed as unrecorded or a category lower than they actually are and you don't find out until you get the v5 back!
Those guys are also good at saying they have all the parts available to repair and you generally get given a phone number which does not work.

Best bet is to buy it off the person who has crashed it, get them to retain the salvage from the insurance company and give them a few quid for the hassle. These are obviously harder to source though. Dealership damaged stock is probably the best but, again, you need to have the contacts to get hold of it.

It depends how much you value your time as to if you will make any 'profit' or not.
Aside from the time looking for /buying the car you need to collect all the spare parts. A complete front end for example will have a premium attached to it. Driving for 100miles to collect one headlight and a bumper then another 100 miles a week later for the other headlight then an hour on the phone ringing around breakers for a fog light can add up.
You will need to source and install a parts catalogue as well for all the little clips and screws or visit a dealer for an hour looking them all up on their system. You will stand more chance of a decent price if you just walk in with a typed list of part numbers though!
Don't forget the prices of the little bits add up massively as well so you need a good system for stripping the car down and a clean area to work in where nothing will get lost. A simple plastic wheel arch liner might cost £100+ and can be another £25+ for the fixing screws.
You could glue a cracked one back together and use some self-tappers but that's exactly the sort of thing an aa/rac inspection will flag up as a 'sub standard repair' and scare the buyers off.

Mates rates for paint is fine but remember most of the write-offs are write-offs as a professional has deemed it uneconomic to fix. Although they do have things like hire cars to take into account they also get good rates on repair and paint due to holding massive contracts with repair centres and a lot of them are using 'green' parts (used) so have that on side with them.
Costs of resetting airbag ecu's and other warning lights can add up and can need specialist kit so mates rates might not always be an option for those.

If you have loads of time on your hands then a few cheap motors that just need tidying up and a new mot might be ok. I prefer to get one high end ideally under year old and allow myself all winter to find the parts, leave it at the paint shop for a few weeks until they have a spare space, leave it on the drive until the mate can reset the ecu and so on. Mates rates seem to be a lot better if there is no time pressure and they normally feel a bit guilty if they have kept me waiting for a month and get better again!
Obviously you need to tie up more budget in that sort of motor but it pays off in a higher % on your time and fixed costs like recovery and hpi checks.

 

[stuvy]

@hotponyshoes

Damn good post there

 

[hotponyshoes]

Also keep an eye out for cars where the "damage" is being used as a distraction to cover up something else.
I looked at a high end range rover a while back. It would crank but not start, my guess was that it had been jump started backwards or on 24v as most of the ECU's in the car were dead. (Probably £10k to repair).
I left it but it eventually sold. Readvertised a couple of months later and eventually sold again.
Last time I saw it was on ebay as "unrecorded salvage" with light panel scratches being sold as stolen/recovered - keys missing.
It did sell which would have been a nasty surprise for the buyer especially as they would have to spend £500 for some new keys just to find out it won't run.

 

[Ruffian]

Been looking at buying a car from HBC or co-part and doing some repairs myself and obviously getting some that i cant do(mechanical) done elsewhere ,my friend is a painter so can get it painted at a good price ..i think theres money to be made,anyone else do this to make money and how did it go?

Yep we dabble quite a bit.
Say 30vehicles a year. Mainly from copart but others also.

We buy 3/4 write offs.
But then use 1 or 2 to repair the others and then carry on. Some stuff sells for silly money but some makes pence.

Bought a 2014 yeti the other day. Cat s with bags gone for sure 2k.
Bumper headlight wing hub and wheel, airbag kit, paint etc. Cost less than £1500.

So a 8k retail car for less than 3500.
There is money to be made but it's all little engine first car jobs or the other end with high price prestige at rock bottom prices.
Too many people in the game though.

I agree with buying the cheaper cars/mot repairs and just making a couple of quid here and there.

This is my current car.
2012 ibiza 1.2 tsi fr. Cat s bought from copart. Repaired and back on the road (and improved) for less than 40% of the equivalent forecourt price.

A bike I did is also on here. Search (street twin crash)

 

[armalites]

Been looking at buying a car from HBC or co-part and doing some repairs myself and obviously getting some that i cant do(mechanical) done elsewhere ,my friend is a painter so can get it painted at a good price ..i think theres money to be made,anyone else do this to make money and how did it go?

You need to go on Youtube, there are literally dozens of channels doing exactly this. Mostly in the USA though

A few that I watch, many of these start out working in a garage at their parents houses. It just proves that anyone can learn once you lose the "Needs a specialist" mindset.

Goonzquad , two brothers who started out rebuilding a Jeep Rubicon and are now rebuilding Ferrari,Lambo,Motorbikes,Boat, and really late 2018/2019 vehicles. The bodywork standards they achieve in their are amazing on the later builds.
Samcrac ,
Backyardboys , I haven't seen a lot of their videos but I watched them put a quarter panel in a late BMW M2 in their garage at home and did a really nice job of it too.
B Is For Build , at moment he is building a 1500hp LS Turbo powered Lambo Hurican with a manual gearbox from a fire damaged car.

None of these people have high end tool kits but Goonzquad are probably now generating of $1M in revenue but they work hard for it. I have no idea how they keep so upbeat when they are sometimes working till 2-3 in the morning and then back on first thing next day.

People always forget that this is where the ethos of Wheeler Dealers started. Buy a car that someone had got fed up with, tinker with it in your spare time for fun. Fix all the little niggles, polish it and move it on.

Modern cars look scary but you just have to get in and start digging, once you start taking things apart it's amazing how obvious it is where fixings go when you put it back together.

The key is buying the right vehicle, when Saxo VTR where everywhere because of the free insurance a friend on mine used to break them. He always bought ones that had been hit in the rear for the simple reason most of the ones that got crashed were damaged in the front so the front end parts made really good money.

The places selling this are also pretty good at making stuff look good and on many of these Youtube channels you stuff that looks like it needed a wing and a bumper then they find the frame rail is bent and alll the mounts are ripped off.

 

[stuvy]

I buy bits from forums and break them now and then, I sat on 911 wings and bumpers and made a very handsome profit

Did the same with a defender body, got it for £150, sold the front wing just one for £350

 

[armalites]

I buy bits from forums and break them now and then, I sat on 911 wings and bumpers and made a very handsome profit

Did the same with a defender body, got it for £150, sold the front wing just one for £350

This the difficult bit, knowing when to take a profit and when to wait and not be emotional about any of it. I have friend who does it, buys stuff he's always wanted at a good price but if there is a good profit it goes. I always have the mindset that I'll never get one that cheap again but the reality is there will always be something else.

 

[mtt.tr]

I used to do bikes and flog them on and made very good money , CBR600 non runner paid £750 spent less that £100 and flogged it for £2600, FZR1000 paid £750 fixed for £150 then sold for £1900! Both bikes were really nice and not bodged up. I did loads more over the years.....


Then Ebay came along and screwed it all up as everyone thinks they can do it so prices are stupid now for old rotters.
Selling them started to be a right pain in the **** too as we seem to have bred a generation of chancers!
Did a Vauxhall Frontera once that was fubar when I got it and I sold it on for a little profit. Didn't bother with anymore cars after that.
It's ok if you have the time and knowledge of what you're buying and what might be wrong with them before splashing the cash!

I used to do the same 10 years ago

 

[stuvy]

This the difficult bit, knowing when to take a profit and when to wait and not be emotional about any of it. I have friend who does it, buys stuff he's always wanted at a good price but if there is a good profit it goes. I always have the mindset that I'll get one that cheap again but the reality is there will always be something else.

I have a bottom line in my mind of what things are worth and just stick to that unless it’s large and bulky and I need the space

 

[Ashley Burton]

I hate dealing with people, So not for me personally!

 

[daedalusminos]

Don't forget to factor your time in at the correct rate - minimum wage is about £8/hr so a week of labour is about £300.

Wheeler Dealer's have the benefit of just ignoring that expense!

 

[ukracer]

Don't forget to factor your time in at the correct rate - minimum wage is about £8/hr so a week of labour is about £300.

Wheeler Dealer's have the benefit of just ignoring that expense!

And the HMRC tax , Premise rent and and EXTRAS like comsumables and electric PLUS the all important insurances Public liability and Contents etc cost a lot. WHy do you think Boris wants to shred red tape and workers rights , because we all want things cheap and many people get greedy.

I think that Hotponyshoes has much of it bang on...what I would add is being able to do almost everything yourself is a godsend.

 

[armalites]

Wheeler Dealer's have the benefit of just ignoring that expense!

It's not that they are ignoring it, the point is as mentioned in my post the original ethos of that show was people buying stuff that needed some tinker time and making a few quid fixing something previous couldn't or couldn't be bothered.

With other hobbies you don't cost out your time so if you get fun using your tools to fix something then as long as you don't end up out of pocket it's all good.

I have friend who does some bits and pieces and he has a mindset like this, buy something for £500, do two days work on it at £100 a day then sell it for £750 and say "It's not worthwhile as there was only £50 profit" and I'm thinking hang on you paid yourself £100 a day for doing something you enjoy. I fully understand if you are paying someone else to do the work.

 

[Cuthy246]

Well worth the time and effort, keep an eye on marketplace and gumtree for mot fails, especially ones where you can see the reg and check what you are in for. Have done a couple this way and there is definitely money to be made. Paid £200 for a Punto £50 on parts plus £35 for an mot then sold it for £650. Had a housing gt125 that I bought for £50, £75 of parts plus mot. Sold for £800. Passed on an excellent one last month, £100 mot fail Yaris. Needed the brakes and exhaust looking at, just didn't have any space left to put it

 

[visor_down]

Well worth the time and effort, keep an eye on marketplace and gumtree for mot fails, especially ones where you can see the reg and check what you are in for. Have done a couple this way and there is definitely money to be made. Paid £200 for a Punto £50 on parts plus £35 for an mot then sold it for £650. Had a housing gt125 that I bought for £50, £75 of parts plus mot. Sold for £800. Passed on an excellent one last month, £100 mot fail Yaris. Needed the brakes and exhaust looking at, just didn't have any space left to put it

What do you re transporting them andtest drives etc? Or do you tax insure and register them to yourself for a short while?