- Thread starter steve.h
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looks well steve, well done, her indoors will be looking more now 
cumbriasteve
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Great work...crap candle 
.. if you have a £ shop near you they do those stubby church candles (guess how much?)..would look spot on and be 'to size' with the ironwork.
I don't have a forge so use cold formed or even bought in scrolls, everyone admires them but I think forged work just has that 'for a lifetime' look.
.. if you have a £ shop near you they do those stubby church candles (guess how much?)..would look spot on and be 'to size' with the ironwork.I don't have a forge so use cold formed or even bought in scrolls, everyone admires them but I think forged work just has that 'for a lifetime' look.
dickie bell
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very nice it has a elegant look to it , could see that being rather popular well done
Windy Miller
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Now that is REALLY nice. Such a simple design but very attractive. Well done that man! May have to steal that idea from you!
steve.h
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I am going to improve the design slightly, I dont like to see the welds joining the two scrolls, I will either wrap welding wire round or make a small strip of sheet to wrap round, I also though by flattening the top and bottom scroll slightly and then cut a slit in the discs that go at the top and bottom I can then weld through the slits so the welds are invisible, this one is finished with beeswax, I guess I could paint them, then there would be colour options...
I aim to sell them locally, I am going to make a smaller one to make a pair, the larger one I have made is 14-15 inches tall so I thought one 11-12 inches high would go well, I am thinking £18 for the large and £15 for the small and around £26 for the pair, what do you think ?? is that too much ?? I do see a lot of hand forged stuff on sale on the web and it is always a lot higher priced, but I want to be able to sell them. What are your thoughts ??
Cheers.
Steve.
I aim to sell them locally, I am going to make a smaller one to make a pair, the larger one I have made is 14-15 inches tall so I thought one 11-12 inches high would go well, I am thinking £18 for the large and £15 for the small and around £26 for the pair, what do you think ?? is that too much ?? I do see a lot of hand forged stuff on sale on the web and it is always a lot higher priced, but I want to be able to sell them. What are your thoughts ??
Cheers.
Steve.
1. Don't get into painting them, especially at that price bracket.
2. For the joints you could keep the welds (keep them small) and wrap a length of bar round them (to cover the weld) - taper both ends of the bar first.
3. They look a little unstable to me, and slightly out of proportion (stock size vs height etc), do some experimenting...
Other than that, try it and see. The round tapers look nice and clean - seems a good start.
Al.
2. For the joints you could keep the welds (keep them small) and wrap a length of bar round them (to cover the weld) - taper both ends of the bar first.
3. They look a little unstable to me, and slightly out of proportion (stock size vs height etc), do some experimenting...
Other than that, try it and see. The round tapers look nice and clean - seems a good start.
Al.
steve.h
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Hi Al, thanks for the input, I used 10mm round bar, each part of the scrolls is about 10 inches, giving the 14 inch height. I didnt want to use any thicker bar as I wanted them to look slender, I wouldnt make them any taller in that size bar, I was thinking a shorter one to go with it. the top plate is about 1.2mm sheet, the base on this one is about 2.5mm but I have some 4mm plate scraps I can use. I was thinking about making some sort of collar to go round and hide the welds, I have some 16x3mm flat, that should do it, maybe make it look prettier some how.
What do you think of the prices, I am a bit slow at the moment being a learner an all, so it probably took me about an hour and a half taking my time etc, do you think I am wanting too much for them ?? I dont want to under value my effort but I do want to sell them reasonably easy, what would you charge for them ??
All comments are always useful.
Cheers.
Steve.
What do you think of the prices, I am a bit slow at the moment being a learner an all, so it probably took me about an hour and a half taking my time etc, do you think I am wanting too much for them ?? I dont want to under value my effort but I do want to sell them reasonably easy, what would you charge for them ??
All comments are always useful.
Cheers.
Steve.
I don't tend to make small stuff like this - I prefer to focus on fewer larger projects, so can't help too much on prices. Items on this scale are either turned away or done as a favour.
I don't see anything wrong at all with your prices. It might be worth considering the following though:
1. Know how your product fits into the overall market of metalwork. In other words, you're not making Fabergé eggs here, so don't fart about for too long, especially if you're planning on semi-commercialisation. For the odd tenner, no-one is going to expect perfection. You'll pick up speed in doing the actual work, so never worry about how long its taking you, just do some more. What you do in 3, 4 or 5 heats to start with, you'll be doing in 1 heat by the 100th time.
2. As you're pumping stuff out to sell cheap (no offence - that's just the market you're making for), try to find ways to save time. Make jigs and tooling that can be used quickly and gives the same result every time (unless you don't want that). Also, lots of steel suppliers sell discs and candle holders for pennies - try buying in a few different ones and see what you reckon, for 10 or 15 quid you could have a good old look at all the different types and decide if anything can be used to make your production more efficient. I don't see anything wrong with using these parts on products like this, its just commercially sensible. Don't be afraid to go with a much thicker base for stability. If you don't like the plain discs, you could use them as a starting point (stock already cut and ready) and do some work on them to help integrate them into the design.
3. On a practical level, if you want to give shape to something you've forged (say, a tapered end) without damaging the surface of the nice smooth taper you've made, use a hide mallet, or a wooden mallet (I like nice big Thor hide mallets with the split heads for easy replacement of the hide inserts). You can give it a whack to change the overall shape without denting the actual surface. Get yourself a stump of wood to use as an anvil for this type of work, don't worry about smoke / flames, it won't catch fire. Also good for straightening. For example google 'Thor RH175 Split Head Hammer'. One for the crimbo stocking.
4. If you want to make your own candle mounts, you can give them slightly more sophistication by beating a disc (cold is fine) with the round end of a ball pein hammer - it'll gradually become a dish if you keep tapping and rotating. Looks a bit better than flat discs, which can look quite basic. Untrained eyes pick up on some of these things without knowing what it is they've picked up on, if you see what I mean. On the other hand, huge metalworking travesties can go completely unnoticed!
5. With prices in general, don't get dragged down. Work out PRECISELY what each one costs, and add up your time - including everything - ordering, unpacking, surface treatments, the whole lot and add that in. Add a bit, and don't sell below that, unless you just want to spend your time forging for other people's benefit (you may).
By the way, the photograph is absolutely the right idea - good job.
Al.
I don't see anything wrong at all with your prices. It might be worth considering the following though:
1. Know how your product fits into the overall market of metalwork. In other words, you're not making Fabergé eggs here, so don't fart about for too long, especially if you're planning on semi-commercialisation. For the odd tenner, no-one is going to expect perfection. You'll pick up speed in doing the actual work, so never worry about how long its taking you, just do some more. What you do in 3, 4 or 5 heats to start with, you'll be doing in 1 heat by the 100th time.
2. As you're pumping stuff out to sell cheap (no offence - that's just the market you're making for), try to find ways to save time. Make jigs and tooling that can be used quickly and gives the same result every time (unless you don't want that). Also, lots of steel suppliers sell discs and candle holders for pennies - try buying in a few different ones and see what you reckon, for 10 or 15 quid you could have a good old look at all the different types and decide if anything can be used to make your production more efficient. I don't see anything wrong with using these parts on products like this, its just commercially sensible. Don't be afraid to go with a much thicker base for stability. If you don't like the plain discs, you could use them as a starting point (stock already cut and ready) and do some work on them to help integrate them into the design.
3. On a practical level, if you want to give shape to something you've forged (say, a tapered end) without damaging the surface of the nice smooth taper you've made, use a hide mallet, or a wooden mallet (I like nice big Thor hide mallets with the split heads for easy replacement of the hide inserts). You can give it a whack to change the overall shape without denting the actual surface. Get yourself a stump of wood to use as an anvil for this type of work, don't worry about smoke / flames, it won't catch fire. Also good for straightening. For example google 'Thor RH175 Split Head Hammer'. One for the crimbo stocking.
4. If you want to make your own candle mounts, you can give them slightly more sophistication by beating a disc (cold is fine) with the round end of a ball pein hammer - it'll gradually become a dish if you keep tapping and rotating. Looks a bit better than flat discs, which can look quite basic. Untrained eyes pick up on some of these things without knowing what it is they've picked up on, if you see what I mean. On the other hand, huge metalworking travesties can go completely unnoticed!
5. With prices in general, don't get dragged down. Work out PRECISELY what each one costs, and add up your time - including everything - ordering, unpacking, surface treatments, the whole lot and add that in. Add a bit, and don't sell below that, unless you just want to spend your time forging for other people's benefit (you may).
By the way, the photograph is absolutely the right idea - good job.
Al.
cumbriasteve
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You could always rivet the 2 bars together, offering another visual appeal.
Pricing of any item is never easy, if you want to make to sell and getting a profit is the main criteria over enjoyment, then mass produced scrolls come into their own, cheap, consistent size and it takes minutes to produce a candle holder.
Hand forged items should in my opinion never be cheap, the purchaser is paying for the time and craftsmanship, there are buyers who recognise this, want it and are prepared to pay for it, the problem is they are probably less than 5% of the market.
I have attached a photo of the ones I used to make and sell and I sold a lot through a couple of local art and craft and flower shops.
There is no skill involved, a few tacks, a spray can of matt black, touch of gold and a candle, £20 a pair they sold for, cost about £5 a pair and ten sets an hour was very easily achieved with another half hour to paint....it gets boring though and there is no self satisfaction or feeling of pride...it's just an earner.
Never underprice your work, if you sell 10 at £10 each, it's the same as 5 at £20 each, less metal, more actual profit.
Pricing of any item is never easy, if you want to make to sell and getting a profit is the main criteria over enjoyment, then mass produced scrolls come into their own, cheap, consistent size and it takes minutes to produce a candle holder.
Hand forged items should in my opinion never be cheap, the purchaser is paying for the time and craftsmanship, there are buyers who recognise this, want it and are prepared to pay for it, the problem is they are probably less than 5% of the market.
I have attached a photo of the ones I used to make and sell and I sold a lot through a couple of local art and craft and flower shops.
There is no skill involved, a few tacks, a spray can of matt black, touch of gold and a candle, £20 a pair they sold for, cost about £5 a pair and ten sets an hour was very easily achieved with another half hour to paint....it gets boring though and there is no self satisfaction or feeling of pride...it's just an earner.
Never underprice your work, if you sell 10 at £10 each, it's the same as 5 at £20 each, less metal, more actual profit.
steve.h
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Cheers guys, this is why this forum is so good, you get good info. that has given me lots to think about and has made me feel more certain that I am goin in the right direction. I have looked at buying in ready made scrolls and stuff but it looks nothing like what I do so unless I start heating it and bashing it then it wouldnt work with what I can do, so I think I will keep practicing the scrolls and stuff, like you said I will get quicker.
Thanks again.steve.
Thanks again.steve.
blacksmithstris
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Hi Steve, I didn't see this until now! Nice candlestick, the design flows nicely, I'm not sure about the flat candlecup though, and it does look a little crooked, whether that is the angle of the camera or not, I don't know but if you're going to try to sell these people will notice things like that.
All very good advice so far, please don't sell them too cheaply though, charge for your labour and materials accordingly. Pricing is 'one of those things'. I have an hourly rate, I time how long it takes to make work, or a batch of etc, plus a figure for costs and overheads then work that out as a preliminary price, then have a look at the market for similar items and price accordingly. If something starts to sell well, I up the price a little.
Waxing the steel while warm is a sufficient surface treatment for indoor work such as candlestands, I find painting is a real pain and not really necessary for something like this.
I like cumbriasteve's idea of riveting the two scrolls together, that would add an interesting feature, or even a pass through and wrap around.
I have done a lot smaller decorative work, you have to try to make things as individual as possible, if the public are going to pay a premium for a blacksmith'd piece people don't want to buy stuff that looks like it could have been mass produced overseas. I once made some simple candlestands, with a heart motif, I thought they'd be a great seller as I could sell them rather inexpensively, turns out they didn't, and I sell more of my flower ones that have a bit more work in them.
Don't forget if you sell through galleries, gift shops they will put their bit on top- galleries generally double it, shops often is about 30-40 percent, all depending.
I buy in discs for candles cups, and flowers etc, I don't tend to use bought in components like scrolls etc, though, and if you're into forge work than buying in components and welding them together is not very satisfying, but it all depends on what you want to do. I've attached a pic of a candlestand I've made using the discs - like what astro al was describing, really- using the bought in component and modifying it.
You will get quicker at making, things like the heart hooks and simple flowers that I make and sell rather inexpensively will take me about 15-20 mins to make. I have to say I am getting rather bored of doing them now, but they have been a good earner while I am getting known in the area, and now I am doing less of the smaller work and have more commission work on the go.
The candlestand in the pic took me just under two hours- finished with wax, will take taper candles. These sell for £125 to £225 depending on size and where they are sold. This one is one of the smaller ones is about 50cm tall.
Ok. I've rambled on enough now!! Good luck with it, will be great to see how you get on!
All very good advice so far, please don't sell them too cheaply though, charge for your labour and materials accordingly. Pricing is 'one of those things'. I have an hourly rate, I time how long it takes to make work, or a batch of etc, plus a figure for costs and overheads then work that out as a preliminary price, then have a look at the market for similar items and price accordingly. If something starts to sell well, I up the price a little.
Waxing the steel while warm is a sufficient surface treatment for indoor work such as candlestands, I find painting is a real pain and not really necessary for something like this.
I like cumbriasteve's idea of riveting the two scrolls together, that would add an interesting feature, or even a pass through and wrap around.
I have done a lot smaller decorative work, you have to try to make things as individual as possible, if the public are going to pay a premium for a blacksmith'd piece people don't want to buy stuff that looks like it could have been mass produced overseas. I once made some simple candlestands, with a heart motif, I thought they'd be a great seller as I could sell them rather inexpensively, turns out they didn't, and I sell more of my flower ones that have a bit more work in them.
Don't forget if you sell through galleries, gift shops they will put their bit on top- galleries generally double it, shops often is about 30-40 percent, all depending.
I buy in discs for candles cups, and flowers etc, I don't tend to use bought in components like scrolls etc, though, and if you're into forge work than buying in components and welding them together is not very satisfying, but it all depends on what you want to do. I've attached a pic of a candlestand I've made using the discs - like what astro al was describing, really- using the bought in component and modifying it.
You will get quicker at making, things like the heart hooks and simple flowers that I make and sell rather inexpensively will take me about 15-20 mins to make. I have to say I am getting rather bored of doing them now, but they have been a good earner while I am getting known in the area, and now I am doing less of the smaller work and have more commission work on the go.
The candlestand in the pic took me just under two hours- finished with wax, will take taper candles. These sell for £125 to £225 depending on size and where they are sold. This one is one of the smaller ones is about 50cm tall.
Ok. I've rambled on enough now!! Good luck with it, will be great to see how you get on!
