Can't maintain an arc - I used to be able to

[RonHopeful]

Hi
I've been teaching myself welding for a couple of weeks. I kept getting the rod stuck at first - but only when trying to strike the arc. Apart from that, I didn't have any major problems. I started making a pad of beads and I was getting some OK results (not great, but promising). I thought I was good enough to try some fillet welds. They didn't go too well, so I came back to my pad of beads to practise some more. I also saw a video (on this site I think) showing the effects of some of the most common problems (arc too long, arc too short, amps too low etc). I thought I'd copy them so I could refer to them whilst I was welding. But now I find that I can't maintain an arc. I think the longest bead I've been able to run is about 2cms. I have no idea what's wrong.
I'm using 2.5mm 6013 rods on 4mm steel. The recommended amps are 60-100. I have my welder set at around 80 amps. I've tried increasing and decreasing the amps but it doesn't make a difference. Also, 80 seems about right when I look at the short beads that I do manage to produce.
The problem coincided with getting an auto darkening helmet to replace the hand held one that came with my machine. So I wondered if that had caused me to hold the rod holder differently. So, I've experimented with different rod angles, but with no luck.
I wondered if my rods were a bit damp, so I bought a new box. Again no luck.
Anyway, it's currently no fun at all. I don't mind practising and practising, but I expect to get better, not worse. Can anyone suggest what I should try next?

Thanks
RH

 

[ford34/2]

have a read of the Arc welding Tutorial, its like welding for dummies, written by experts.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/arc-tutorial.htm

 

[Richard.]

So your welding away and then the arc just stops.
Other than a serious change of arc length it sounds like a possible machine fault.

 

[brightspark]

what make of rods are u using. some makes weld easier than others . its worth a try using diffrent makes oerlikon fincord m are verry easy to strike and use

 

[the snooper]

is your welder output the same voltage as the rods recommend ?

 

[Windy Miller]

what make of rods are u using. some makes weld easier than others . its worth a try using diffrent makes oerlikon fincord m are verry easy to strike and use

I second this advice. Oerlikon Fincord M's are so good that even I can use them! I'd never use anything else. Unless they were free of course!

 

[RonHopeful]

I'm using Super6 rods. They're cheap but they seem to get OK reviews (at least nobody said they're rubbish and not to use them). Also, they're the same make as I was using before I hit this problem.
The arc-tutorial (http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/arc-tutorial.htm) is how I discovered this forum. The arc welding faults topic is the sort of thing I was trying to recreate for myself.
A lot of my welds have the symptoms of too short an arc - but if I try to correct it, I lose the arc completely. It's either short or nothing.
The recommended amperage for the rods is 60-100. If I crank it right up to 100, I still can't maintain an arc - and I get way too much spatter on the short welds that I do manage to create.
What can go wrong with a welder?

 

[Tigman]

what machine are you using , buzz box or inverter ?

 

[Parm]

I'm a fairly novice welder and have had the same issues you report, the best bit of advice I had was to get a starting plate on the earth clamp, strike your initial arc on here and get the rod warmed up and things going before you quickly move to the job, it worked a teat for me last weekend when making a simple stand.

I almost felt like I knew how to weld !!!

 

[brightspark]

i have one on earth clamp. strike it here 1st then on the job it saves this

 

[Kent]

Are you running electrode negative? Also is you plant putting out as claimed? I can run a 2.5 super 6/ 6013 down to 60 amp and shouldn't go higher than 80 but some machines tell lies. I should also look at your position and prop, though well set up with a good plant and and anti - stick such 6013 rods will burn themselves down

 

[RonHopeful]

My machine doesn't have the option to switch between positive and negative. And, I'm embarrassed to admit that I would not know how to test the output. Electricity is pretty much a mystery to me. But, there's a guy renovating an old Airstream trailer nearby. I heard the sound of welding today. I might go and introduce myself and ask if he'd be prepared to try my machine. If he's a halfway competent welder and can't maintain an arc with it, then it's a fault with the machine - which I'm beginning to suspect. Wish me luck. And thanks for the replies so far.

 

[Richard.]

Swapping polarity pos and neg is simply done by switching the cables (electrode holder and return) around. I'm pretty sure your machine will do that.

 

[Kent]

My machine doesn't have the option to switch between positive and negative. And, I'm embarrassed to admit that I would not know how to test the output. Electricity is pretty much a mystery to me. But, there's a guy renovating an old Airstream trailer nearby. I heard the sound of welding today. I might go and introduce myself and ask if he'd be prepared to try my machine. If he's a halfway competent welder and can't maintain an arc with it, then it's a fault with the machine - which I'm beginning to suspect. Wish me luck. And thanks for the replies so far.

If the earth and torch attach you just swap them. I shouldn't hold great faith in anyone I didn't know in being able to work MMA competently, its not too hard its just so few use it in industry away from site work (and many just carry little MIG sets for what they need). True though you could have a fault but try this first and make sure you have a real good earth connection both at the work and at the set

 

[RonHopeful]

Well, I went and introduced myself. Nice guy - as soon as he realised I wasn't round to complain about the noise. I took my welder round and he had a go with it. No problem maintaining an arc. I then had a go with it. It didn't go perfectly, but it worked better that it does at my place. So I guess I've now got to get an electrician in to check out the supply to my shed. Bother. I'd almost have preferred it if my neighbour had said "there is something seriously wrong with this welder".

 

[brightspark]

your obviously getting voltage drop to your shed then. 2 light a cable or and to long a run

 

[Cyberprog]

your obviously getting voltage drop to your shed then. 2 light a cable or and to long a run

Or both

 

[Robotstar5]

your obviously getting voltage drop to your shed then. 2 light a cable or and to long a run

It's a 50 metre Homeba5e special plugged into the cooker socket so should be good for 30A?

 

[Bill Edwards]

That may be a big part of the problem. The supply (i.e the cooker socket) is great but a 50m cable is poor for welding with.
I think I've identified your problem!

 

[Wendelspanswick]

That may be a big part of the problem. The supply (i.e the cooker socket) is great but a 50m cable is poor for welding with.
I think I've identified your problem!

Robotstar5 was being facetious, not sure there is an emoticon for that!