Carbon arc brazing kit

[Farside]

Anyone used the copper-clad arc gouging rods on one of these? The pukka arc rods are getting to be a bit pricey in comparison to gouging rods.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I didn't realise that people still used them!

 

[Farside]

Nobody (or few) do, that's the problem. I was quite good with one, long time ago and with a foreseeable need to stick thin stuff together I don't want to get into gas and rental costs, plus gas torches, etc.
Still, the gouging rods are to be found cheap enough and I might just suck it and see, but would like to find out if anyone has successfully used them.

 

[pedrobedro]

The gouging rods are the same thing as was sold with the kit originally aren't they ? They just used to get the inflated Kel Arc price treatment as gouging rods were not available widely to the public.

 

[brightspark]

is this the sort of thing u want ?http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/carbon-arc-heating-brazing.17798/

 

[Farside]

The gouging rods are the same thing as was sold with the kit originally aren't they ? They just used to get the inflated Kel Arc price treatment as gouging rods were not available widely to the public.

From what I recall, the original carbon rods were quite hard and I'm wondering if different construction of gouging rods will have a good or bad effect. AC and DC rods are likely different in their core/composition. If it turns out AC rods work fine, that's grand.
I'm pretty sure I could buy one of the packs of DC rods and I'll get an arc, but not sure of the effect and longevity.
Cheap enough to try though, but I'd not like to waste money on something only to find I should simply have bought a, b, or c.

 

[Farside]

is this the sort of thing u want ?http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/carbon-arc-heating-brazing.17798/

Yep, that's exactly the one.

 

[Paul G]

After a quick Google I found a that a pair of 8mm carbon rods for the above holder cost £3.59 ( Machinemart)

I don't class that as expensive when you think of the amount of work (brazing) that they will do.
Let's face it. It's the price of one pint of beer, depending on the "flavour".


Now if you want expensive….. try the hire + gas costs of a cylinder of oxy & acetylene.

 

[Farside]

After a quick Google I found a that a pair of 8mm carbon rods for the above holder cost £3.59 ( Machinemart)

I don't class that as expensive when you think of the amount of work (brazing) that they will do.
Let's face it. It's the price of one pint of beer, depending on the "flavour".


Now if you want expensive….. try the hire + gas costs of a cylinder of oxy & acetylene.

Then include the cost of postage to Sticksville, Ballybugger, which only makes it worthwhile to buy a pack of six or ten.
Otoh, a pack of 50 gouging carbons can be got for twenty quid.

 

[Jan]

I had an identical add-on kit for my stick welder some time ago and it worked - after a fashion. But at that time I found the replacement rods to be too fragile and expensive for the little use I had for them. I disconnected the kit a while back and have no idea what happened to it in the intervening years. However I'll be transferring the complete contents of my old shed to my 'new' much larger workshop shortly *fingers crossed* so I'll try and keep an eye out for it.

 

[rich the mechanic]

I have the MM rods and a homemade holder which I can use as a twin or single stick and I found that tig brazing rods work well with a single rod and the twin works well for heating but I haven't tried it with normal brazing rods and flux yet, I also have a kel-arc spot welder attachment and the rod is different as it has a soft core the only difference I have found is the MM ones don't burn back the copper very well so I end up grinding it back every so often.

 

[Farside]

I have the MM rods and a homemade holder which I can use as a twin or single stick and I found that tig brazing rods work well with a single rod and the twin works well for heating but I haven't tried it with normal brazing rods and flux yet, I also have a kel-arc spot welder attachment and the rod is different as it has a soft core the only difference I have found is the MM ones don't burn back the copper very well so I end up grinding it back every so often.

That's useful info, thanks.

 

[Mig&tig]

I had one of these carbon arc tools and became quite competent with it. I still have it though I have not used it in a number of years. According to the dealer from whom I bought it you get best results using "acid cored" carbons. These do not seem to be available any more. I have got the remains of one or two short ends. I have tried it using gouging carbons. Although memory over the years may be playing tricks on me I do believe that the acid cored carbons gave much superior performance. There is a lot of light emission from this technique and you do need good protection from the UV rays. The intensity of the UV will go through thin shirts as much as heavy duty tig welding, probably more so. Proper use of gloves, thick overalls and the usual facemask are sensible precautions. The carbons are fragile and it is quite common to break them when you lay the torch down, so you need somewhere suitable to place the torch when not in use and preferably insulated or isolated because it is very easy to get a short-circuit arc. Because they are large and cumbersome they are much more limited for access than oxyacetylene or tig. Also they only work satisfactorily on AC. The old-fashioned air cooled or oil cooled stick welders are ideal, but not the modern inverter sticks welders as they are DC. They have their uses for heating and bending, brazing and freeing seized components (if you can get the torch in without shorting the rear end of the electrodes). Cost nothing to keep in terms of rental or maintenance costs. Heat is always available providing you have electricity. Can be useful if you run out of gas at a weekend. I used the tong type carbon electrode holder. The technique is to close the carbons together to initiate the arc and then open them out until you get a bats wing shaped flame that is running quietly, then move the flame onto the work. Do not earth the work. That is only for use with single carbon arc torch work. Rather than mess around removing the electrode holder unearths lead and connecting the ring terminals direct to the welder output, I used to clamp one terminal in the soul that and the other in the electrode holder (plier type), or to fit the insulated type electrode holder fit a small nut and bolt and washers to the ring terminal so that it would fit into the electrode holder. This also increases the ranging distance from the welder.


I did try a few years ago to source "acid cord carbons" without any success. The original supplier was adamant that these were vital to good performance. If anyone knows of a source of supply?

 

[Farside]

I came across an old ebay listing for gouging carbons (Murex) that one buyer had said were excellent in his arc torch. I missed them, though.
They were solid core, apparently some of the gouging ones are hollow (indeed, that may be the norm, as I'm not too familiar with them really).

 

[jinjahbiscuit]

I did a bit of research on this yesterday on the web as it's become quite intriguing. Found myself on an American forum where two old guys were discussing the the same subject and trying to find the carbon rods suitable for brazing.
They mentioned a company called Forney that supposedly still supplies them. I found the Forney website, but no rods.
I then ended up on the US evilbay site and there were loads of the things, all claiming to be suitable for gouging, spot welding and; Hurrah! Brazing. Brill.
They were all supplied through the UK!! One of the sellers was Frost. So I checked their UK website, no rods for brazing.
I don't get it. What's the story?

 

[Paul G]

I can't quite get my head round what this thread is about.
There are loads of carbon electrodes on eBay including these:-

 

[jinjahbiscuit]

I think the point is that there are (or were) a specific type of carbon rod for brazing. Others, from what I gather on this thread, are not suitable. Possibly I'm missing something?
I can see the usefulness of having equipment like that, no need for gas bottles if you already have an arc welder.