Certificates and level 2 city & guilds for ARC stick : start up business

[damunk]

New start up:

I have been fabricating steel benches for CNC rails/lead screws. I learned a few years back from the internet (this forum and youtube) how to stick weld with the help of a professional welder who welds at our factory.

If I was to sell these small table top bench which are around 1 metre in length and did not deviate from the designs, what sort of qualification and certificate would I require .

I my self would class the product as a small machine as I will be placing the rails and lead screw on there to sell as a complete unit.

So my thinking were as follows:

CE marking required
H&S certification requires

Would I now need a level 2 in city and guilds , would that suffice?

Otherwise I could see it getting very expensive

I have also heard about perhaps EN 1090 aswell as IS09001.

 

[Endeleus]

Make sure you have Product Liability Insurance, which you should be able to bundle with your Public Liability and (if required) Employee Liability.

 

[damunk]

Would I need level 2 city and guilds welding certificate?

 

[northwest]

Would I need level 2 city and guilds welding certificate?

No and none of the other stuff either. Just make sure you have VERY good insurance. Okay, having a certificate does demonstrate competence but none of the things you are going to be working on/building are mission critical or life saving equipment so just crack on and ensure you have cover for when some numpty drops one on their toes or scratches their car whilst getting it out of the boot.

 

[damunk]

So basically if health and safety pass it for CE marking then it is good to go.

 

[Robotstar5]

So basically if health and safety pass it for CE marking then it is good to go.

Have you looked into the costs of getting CE certification?, it's not cheap.

 

[northwest]

Have you looked into the costs of getting CE certification?, it's not cheap.

CE marking is not a legal requirement and as @Robotstar5 says, the cost is prohibitive for the small workshop. It would bring the whole project to a halt before it started.

 

[winchman]

What is H&S certification?

 

[winchman]

So basically if health and safety pass it for CE marking then it is good to go.

Isn't CE marking more about paper work?

 

[northwest]

What is H&S certification?

I was wondering this too. I sincerely believe you have either been listening to people who haven't a clue as to what they are talking about or you have been spending far too much time (time that could have been spent actually making these things) reading up on the internet reading posts by people who haven't actually done anything but they are going to tell you how to do it.

 

[Brad93]

CE Marking only applies to the finished product in terms of machinery. I.e, machinery guarding, emergency stops, complies with electrical regulations etc.

Obviously it's not structural steel so no need for any certification.

If these are frames, for completion by others, then you just need Product Liability.

If you have designed the frame, then you may require Professional Indemnity insurance.

This would then require some qualifications to prove the frame is capable of taking the loads (or have it designed by a structural engineer) and that the welds have been tested probably at a batch rate of 10%.

 

[Robotstar5]

Isn't CE marking more about paper work?

A lot of paperwork

 

[damunk]

CE Marking only applies to the finished product in terms of machinery. I.e, machinery guarding, emergency stops, complies with electrical regulations etc.

Obviously it's not structural steel so no need for any certification.

If these are frames, for completion by others, then you just need Product Liability.

If you have designed the frame, then you may require Professional Indemnity insurance.

This would then require some qualifications to prove the frame is capable of taking the loads (or have it designed by a structural engineer) and that the welds have been tested probably at a batch rate of 10%.

Brad, I would need professional indemnity insurance and I am certain the frames would need showing that they are capable of taking the loads and also that the welds have been tested.

I take it I would have to get a third party to do this. Is there any qualifications I could undertake to prove that once I have had the initial proto-type tested that I could now carry on making them without need for tests on -going, aslong as the design is kept the same.

 

[winchman]

Brad, I would need professional indemnity insurance and I am certain the frames would need showing that they are capable of taking the loads and also that the welds have been tested.

I take it I would have to get a third party to do this. Is there any qualifications I could undertake to prove that once I have had the initial proto-type tested that I could now carry on making them without need for tests on -going, aslong as the design is kept the same.

I feel its best to have a testing company test your prototype then talk to your insurance to see what they want. Its best to do all this ground work before you even think about making a prototype as many projects are shelved before they reach the market.
I designed and did all the Due diligence for a product then some one poped out of the wood work and claimed he had a design right and it was too alike to his product. I had a good enough case but it was a battle not worth fighting so I shelved it until his design right expired, but to be honest now cant be bothered with it, the product was great at that time of my life but now its not, good product but no longer something I am as enthusiastic about.
My point is you need to be 100% certain it will sell, be safe, work as it should etc before you do a thing or spend a penny.
I would also suggest you talk to an accountant to check the sums add up and you won't be working for free.
I don't want to put a downer on the enthusiasm but as may people on here will confirm its never as easy as first hoped.

 

[Brad93]

Brad, I would need professional indemnity insurance and I am certain the frames would need showing that they are capable of taking the loads and also that the welds have been tested.

I take it I would have to get a third party to do this. Is there any qualifications I could undertake to prove that once I have had the initial proto-type tested that I could now carry on making them without need for tests on -going, aslong as the design is kept the same.

Are you set up as a business @damunk ?

First off, I would set up a limited business. This limits any liability you might have, so you don't end up losing your house.

So is this a frame for a CNC machine?

Personally I can't see that you need to get this technical - its just a simple fabrication at the end of the day.

If you are really set on getting some bits of paper, get yourself some products/public liability. Then arrange to get some 9606 codings (WQR's). Box section you probably just want a fillet weld & butt weld test. If you can turn the frames, so everything is done in the downhand position, then you can just do downhand tests.

Youll have to decide if you want to work to your own procedure or to a premade one that might be under the testing company..

 

[damunk]

@Brad93 I will have to set up Ltd. This is a frame that is techincal and will need CE marking. CE marking can be done in house and then you have to pay a lump sum for each item; (I know it is alot)
@ winchman; If I apply for design patent won't they do all the necessary checks incase someone else pops up like you say to claim the right to the design?

also brad, I might go on a £700 evening course level 2 welding arc; i reckon with that at least its shown I am comptenant on 'paper' to who ever TESTS my product.

 

[northwest]

I have a good friend who is smart as a whip. Three years ago he came up with a product that we both agree would sell extremely well in the US. My suggestion was make a few and stick them on US ebay and see how it went. So then he contacted the US Embassy to enquire about import restrictions, no obstacle, then he contacted the UK department of trade (?) who told him, no restrictions. Then he contacted his insurers and then and so on a so on. Yesterday he called me up in a panic because Trump, when he gets his foot under the desk, is going to impose import tariffs and it might mean my pal may not sell many into the US. I pointed out that here we are three years later and as he hadn't actually sold any yet I struggled to see the problem!
You started this thread in January of this year it is now November, how many of these have you actually built and sold? Thought so.

 

[Erie Fred]

I have a good friend who is smart as a whip. Three years ago he came up with a product that we both agree would sell extremely well in the US. My suggestion was make a few and stick them on US ebay and see how it went. So then he contacted the US Embassy to enquire about import restrictions, no obstacle, then he contacted the UK department of trade (?) who told him, no restrictions. Then he contacted his insurers and then and so on a so on. Yesterday he called me up in a panic because Trump, when he gets his foot under the desk, is going to impose import tariffs and it might mean my pal may not sell many into the US. I pointed out that here we are three years later and as he hadn't actually sold any yet I struggled to see the problem!
You started this thread in January of this year it is now November, how many of these have you actually built and sold? Thought so.

I believe the Tariffs are for Chinese made goods.

 

[damunk]

I have a good friend who is smart as a whip. Three years ago he came up with a product that we both agree would sell extremely well in the US. My suggestion was make a few and stick them on US ebay and see how it went. So then he contacted the US Embassy to enquire about import restrictions, no obstacle, then he contacted the UK department of trade (?) who told him, no restrictions. Then he contacted his insurers and then and so on a so on. Yesterday he called me up in a panic because Trump, when he gets his foot under the desk, is going to impose import tariffs and it might mean my pal may not sell many into the US. I pointed out that here we are three years later and as he hadn't actually sold any yet I struggled to see the problem!
You started this thread in January of this year it is now November, how many of these have you actually built and sold? Thought so.

LMAO your right. Stop worrying and just go with it and sell but you get worried cuz you hear all stuff about being sued if anyone got hurt. So its natural for the "smart whip" to try and cover all angles but I get ya lol

 

[northwest]

I believe the Tariffs are for Chinese made goods.

No, read the whole of his proposal, Europe was high on the list too and given the antics of some of our leaders here I wouldn't be surprised if we struggle for a trade deal here in the UK.