CK Pyrex gas lense

[Rick]

Hello,

Here's what I found with the above kit. I purchased the biggest lense with the Pyrex cup.

I paid £70 inc postage etc which I thought was expensive, but been sold as a "gas saver" I thought it might pay for itself.

Anyway i've tried it for a few days, its fantastic when welding on flat plate, so my first impressions of it were very good, it certainly doesn't save you any gas, I went up from 7-8lpm to ~10lpm to get the same shield. (expected as the cups bigger).
However, as soon as the weld comes out from under the cup, i.e. you've welded more than 2cm your really struggle to get any coverage and the weld ends up black. I found the same with pipe. At 12-15lpm the coverage is better, but still nowhere near as good as my normal lense. With the tungsten out more than 20mm you've got nochance.

The quality of the product is amazing, and there collect is really good.

There are the odd places I use it when you can't see past the normal cup but thats about it.

I'm not sure if anybody else has tried them and what they found.

I'll post some welds with it later.

 

[wyn]

I have the smaller sized one that happened to come with a new torch.
I have only done a couple of beads with it (pics in this thread)
It was a bit strange being able to see everything around the area being welded.
It seems ok but is pretty well the same diameter as a normal lense.

 

[Rick]

Heres a few pics to compare. Sorry for the bad quality, dropped my DSLR this morning and the flash seems to have broke.

Seems good on Ally, didn't really clean it up first. These were both done with the clear cup and CK lense.

Old lense on top, new on bottom.

High gas flow on this 1, but was a nice weld I think.

 

[matt1978]

Nice welds.

What are the benefits of this clear ceramic? Is it purely so you can see thru it whilst welding??

 

[Shox Dr]

What are the benefits of this clear ceramic?

It prevents backache by lightening your wallet

 

[Rick]

Nice welds.

What are the benefits of this clear ceramic? Is it purely so you can see thru it whilst welding??

Should have mentioned the machine as well... Lorch T220 ac/dc. Yes basically, not much an advantage though as normally you need to see through it and have the tungsten out really far. Say you had to weld at the bottom of a glass You wouldn't be able to see where you was welding because the ceramic would block your view. With this you can see a bit better, but you can't have the tungsten out very far without contamination .

It prevents backache by lightening your wallet

To be honest, thats about right it seems, I wasn't all that impressed with it until today, it is marginally better (the gas lense). The clear cup itself isn't all that much different, I usually stick the tungsten out a fair bit anyway so can see what i'm doing and find with a big lense you can move quicker. However in some tight places its invaluable and really does help. You could probably live without it.

Has anybody used 1 of these? I'm tempted to try 1. CRAZY money, but again might save me a lot of time in the hard to reach places with the work I do.

http://www.rapidwelding.com/dynamic/DisplayItem.aspx?c=MR1412SF

 

[shenion]

Would think it would help a cheap auto helmet trigger on low currents.

Wonder if they are more durable. Have had the cheap Chinese ceramics split soon after use and when you set the torch down and it flips over seems to always chip the ceramic.

Am tempted, may be more durable.

 

[Rick]

Would think it would help a cheap auto helmet trigger on low currents.

Wonder if they are more durable. Have had the cheap Chinese ceramics split soon after use and when you set the torch down and it flips over seems to always chip the ceramic.

Am tempted, may be more durable.

At £20 each I hope I never have to find out. I also had a cheap chinese ceramic fail. I've dropped the 1 i've got on now about 10 times over the past year and its not broke. (touch would) i'll post back up tomorrow when i drop it and it does breack

While on the subject i've just got the new lincoln mask, in the edge of 1 of the pic's. Really good hat

 

[Shox Dr]

Wonder if they are more durable.

By all accounts no. Less so from what I've heard

 

[CKJeff]

CK Pyrex Gas Saver System

Hi All,

Just reading all the posts and want to see if I can clear up a couple of items.

The Gas Saver system was designed to improve a few areas in the TIG welding process. They are:

1) Save up to 40% argon gas consumption versus a standard collet body system. (The Gas Saver system creates a columnar flow pattern like a standard gas lens.)
2) Provide an inexpensive way to replace the mesh screens if they get fouled up.
3) Minimize thread damage on the torch by only replacing the screen assembly into the collet body instead of screwing a gas lens in and out of the torch body.

A standard collet body does not direct the flow of argon in an efficient manner. Argon, being heavier than air, will just tumble out of the end of a standard cup. By introducing a screen assembly on the end of the collet body, the argon is straightened into a more efficient columnar flow. This will provide the welder to reduce his LPM by upto 40%. If the normal flow is 10LPM, you can go down to 6LPM with the same results in a draft free area.

A clear Pyrex nozzle was developed to allow the welder to see the entire weld puddle. This is very helpful when doing inside corners, etc. The nozzle is glass so extra care needs to be taken when using it. The system does have an Alumina (pink) ceramic for normal usage.

In the normal welding process you can have particles come back up to the mesh screen and plug up the individual holes which then restricts the columnar flow pattern. In a normal gas lens you have to replace the entire assembly. In the Gas Saver system, you only replace the very end with the screens.

In the large diameter version, it does have a bit of a misnomer with the title "Gas Saver". This was designed to weld Titanium. Titanium and other similar reactive alloys require more sheilding gas around the HAZ (heat affected zone). Since you need such a large ceramic to direct the sheilding gas, visibility is limited hence the Pyrex nozzle. With such a nozzle, it does require going to about 12-15 LMP but this is also a great thing for Titanium. Titanium reacts to Nitrogen and Oxygen at 500 degrees Fahrenheit and above so the more gas the better.

If anyone has any specific questions, I am the President of CK Worldwide and would love to hear from you. You can also contact our representatives in Portsmouth to speak direct with them. The contact is:

Rapid Welding Supply
Unit 2D Hamilton Road
Portchester Park, Cosham
Portsmouth, Hampshire P06 4QE
tel: 02392214214

If you mention this post you will receive 10% off any Gas Saver Kit.

 

[hotrodder]

It prevents backache by lightening your wallet

Cheers for that, just choked on my cuppa!

Rick, hows the weight and bulk (lengthwise) compared to a large weldcraft and #12 ceramic? Suprised you've found coverage less good than the weldcraft, as per the other thread i would have expected them to be pretty similar (size for size, equal flow rates) with the CK obviously going to a larger diameter than available from weldcraft. From what you said i assume you've used it on real parts rather than just some coupons (where there's nowhere for the heat to run to)?

One for CKJeff. Jeff, the 'universal collet body'... i'm picturing something similar to the 1/16 collets i have that fit in a 3/32 collet body i.e the OD is larger so only one body/gas lens is needed for both tungsten sizes. A little confusing as the gas saver kits are sold by tungsten size i.e. there are 3 sizes of kit (1/16, 3/32 and 1/8 tungsten) available for say a #9/20 torch. What i'm getting at is can you fit a 1/16 tungsten into a 3/32 collet body due to collet design?

 

[Rick]

Cheers for that, just choked on my cuppa!

Rick, hows the weight and bulk (lengthwise) compared to a large weldcraft and #12 ceramic? Suprised you've found coverage less good than the weldcraft, as per the other thread i would have expected them to be pretty similar (size for size, equal flow rates) with the CK obviously going to a larger diameter than available from weldcraft. From what you said i assume you've used it on real parts rather than just some coupons (where there's nowhere for the heat to run to)?

One for CKJeff. Jeff, the 'universal collet body'... i'm picturing something similar to the 1/16 collets i have that fit in a 3/32 collet body i.e the OD is larger so only one body/gas lens is needed for both tungsten sizes. A little confusing as the gas saver kits are sold by tungsten size i.e. there are 3 sizes of kit (1/16, 3/32 and 1/8 tungsten) available for say a #9/20 torch. What i'm getting at is can you fit a 1/16 tungsten into a 3/32 collet body due to collet design?

Haha, I laughed at that too.
It's slightly heavier than a "weldcraft" but I don't notice, I was using a pretty bulky WP26 air cooled torch though. The length is a bit of an issue, a strange 1 as the cup doesn't screw on you can move it up and down at your will. It is a little bit too long though, 10mm shorter would have been great. IMO.

The CK is better for straight runs, welding in corners etc. The problem comes on pipe, I can literally only weld under the cup, or it goes horribly black. Probably ok in real world stuff, but in automotive with no pickling or brushing a normal lense is better. I could probably travel 10mm further with my normal lense without a pause. Maybe I'm not using enough gas, if you work out the X sectional area of the 2, its nearly double with this bigger lense, maybe I need double the gas flow.

I got the 2.4mm and it came with the stubby 2.4mm collet (same diameter externally just shorter than normal), the lense is perfectly 2.4mm pretty snug fit, so I imagine thats the only difference. If i had a 1.6mm collect, i'm sure I could use a 1.6mm tungsten with this lense.

I'm sure I'd miss it if somebody took it away from me, but i'd miss my weldcraft more!

 

[Rick]

Hi All,

Just reading all the posts and want to see if I can clear up a couple of items.

The Gas Saver system was designed to improve a few areas in the TIG welding process. They are:

1) Save up to 40% argon gas consumption versus a standard collet body system. (The Gas Saver system creates a columnar flow pattern like a standard gas lens.)
2) Provide an inexpensive way to replace the mesh screens if they get fouled up.
3) Minimize thread damage on the torch by only replacing the screen assembly into the collet body instead of screwing a gas lens in and out of the torch body.

A standard collet body does not direct the flow of argon in an efficient manner. Argon, being heavier than air, will just tumble out of the end of a standard cup. By introducing a screen assembly on the end of the collet body, the argon is straightened into a more efficient columnar flow. This will provide the welder to reduce his LPM by upto 40%. If the normal flow is 10LPM, you can go down to 6LPM with the same results in a draft free area.

A clear Pyrex nozzle was developed to allow the welder to see the entire weld puddle. This is very helpful when doing inside corners, etc. The nozzle is glass so extra care needs to be taken when using it. The system does have an Alumina (pink) ceramic for normal usage.

In the normal welding process you can have particles come back up to the mesh screen and plug up the individual holes which then restricts the columnar flow pattern. In a normal gas lens you have to replace the entire assembly. In the Gas Saver system, you only replace the very end with the screens.

In the large diameter version, it does have a bit of a misnomer with the title "Gas Saver". This was designed to weld Titanium. Titanium and other similar reactive alloys require more shielding gas around the HAZ (heat affected zone). Since you need such a large ceramic to direct the shielding gas, visibility is limited hence the Pyrex nozzle. With such a nozzle, it does require going to about 12-15 LMP but this is also a great thing for Titanium. Titanium reacts to Nitrogen and Oxygen at 500 degrees Fahrenheit and above so the more gas the better.

If anyone has any specific questions, I am the President of CK Worldwide and would love to hear from you. You can also contact our representatives in Portsmouth to speak direct with them. The contact is:

Rapid Welding Supply
Unit 2D Hamilton Road
Portchester Park, Cosham
Portsmouth, Hampshire P06 4QE
tel: 02392214214

If you mention this post you will receive 10% off any Gas Saver Kit.

Hello,

Firstly how did you find this thread so quickly!

Thanks for the reply anyway,

1), Clearly where I was going wrong, welding with no lense is useless I don't know anybody who would do that.
2), Didn't know that. How much are the new mesh sheilds? (although a whole new normal lense is only a few quid)
3) This will be maximized for me as I have to swap between my standard lense and the CK for pipes and awkward bits where I need the tungsten further out.

The CK Large Diameter Gas SaverTM front end is used to provide an inert atmosphere for the welding of reactive
metals such as titanium, molybdenum, nickel-based and aluminum based alloys, as well as non-reactive metals
like stainless steel. This design is lightweight, allowing for operator comfort and accurate control. The front end
also uses a clear Pyrex cup creating excellent visibility of the weld puddle. The clear cup features an inside
diameter of 1 1/8” (28.57mm) which is the largest cup orifice available on the market today. This design offers
a replaceable, interchangeable tungsten adapter; and a universal collet body, creating less inventory, and allowing
inexpensive screen replacement. Tungsten stick-out can be up to 2” (50.8mm) in certian conditions. This kit
allows welders to weld low amperage Titanium without a trailing shield. Great for tack welding outside of an inert
chamber and repairs of small cracks.

What flow would you need to get the tungsten 50mm from the lens? With no wind at all I can't get more than about 20-30mm from the lens without terrible contamination this is with flow of about 15LPM.
A standard lens with the same flow will do 30-40mm. Maybe the size of the cup is too large for what I need, can you get smaller cups for the same lense? This would increase the velocity of the gas and maybe make it go "further".

Rapid welding were excellent and posted it out very quickly

 

[Rick]

Heres where I would have to swap back to the standard lense. This is approx 40mm's away.

 

[CKJeff]

Cheers for that, just choked on my cuppa!

Rick, hows the weight and bulk (lengthwise) compared to a large weldcraft and #12 ceramic? Suprised you've found coverage less good than the weldcraft, as per the other thread i would have expected them to be pretty similar (size for size, equal flow rates) with the CK obviously going to a larger diameter than available from weldcraft. From what you said i assume you've used it on real parts rather than just some coupons (where there's nowhere for the heat to run to)?

One for CKJeff. Jeff, the 'universal collet body'... i'm picturing something similar to the 1/16 collets i have that fit in a 3/32 collet body i.e the OD is larger so only one body/gas lens is needed for both tungsten sizes. A little confusing as the gas saver kits are sold by tungsten size i.e. there are 3 sizes of kit (1/16, 3/32 and 1/8 tungsten) available for say a #9/20 torch. What i'm getting at is can you fit a 1/16 tungsten into a 3/32 collet body due to collet design?

Hotrodder - The Wedge Collet is designed only to work in the size specific collet body or tungsten adapter with screens. So you need to use the 1/16 (1.6 mm) in the 1/16 (1.6 mm) collet body. The Wedge Collet takes less pressure to secure the tungsten and puts the tungsten in direct contact with the collet body or the tungsten adapter which improves arc starts and stability. You can use a standard split collet and achieve the same results as you described, putting a 1/16 (1.6 mm) collet into a 3/32 (2.4 mm) collet body.

 

[pedrobedro]

You can get extra long ceramics for tight corners Rick, I think Parweld do them.

 

[CKJeff]

Hello,

Firstly how did you find this thread so quickly!

Thanks for the reply anyway,

1), Clearly where I was going wrong, welding with no lense is useless I don't know anybody who would do that.
2), Didn't know that. How much are the new mesh sheilds? (although a whole new normal lense is only a few quid)
3) This will be maximized for me as I have to swap between my standard lense and the CK for pipes and awkward bits where I need the tungsten further out.

The CK Large Diameter Gas SaverTM front end is used to provide an inert atmosphere for the welding of reactive
metals such as titanium, molybdenum, nickel-based and aluminum based alloys, as well as non-reactive metals
like stainless steel. This design is lightweight, allowing for operator comfort and accurate control. The front end
also uses a clear Pyrex cup creating excellent visibility of the weld puddle. The clear cup features an inside
diameter of 1 1/8” (28.57mm) which is the largest cup orifice available on the market today. This design offers
a replaceable, interchangeable tungsten adapter; and a universal collet body, creating less inventory, and allowing
inexpensive screen replacement. Tungsten stick-out can be up to 2” (50.8mm) in certian conditions. This kit
allows welders to weld low amperage Titanium without a trailing shield. Great for tack welding outside of an inert
chamber and repairs of small cracks.

What flow would you need to get the tungsten 50mm from the lens? With no wind at all I can't get more than about 20-30mm from the lens without terrible contamination this is with flow of about 15LPM.
A standard lens with the same flow will do 30-40mm. Maybe the size of the cup is too large for what I need, can you get smaller cups for the same lense? This would increase the velocity of the gas and maybe make it go "further".

Rapid welding were excellent and posted it out very quickly

Rick - I try to keep up on message boards regarding CK product and a buddy told me about this one so I jumped on. For the large diameter Gas Saver to achieve the 50 mm stickout, you do need to increase the flow to roughly, 17 - 20 LPM because of the size of the cup. Don't forget to increase the post flow and keep the tungsten in position until the post flow stops. I also will trigger the post flow with my torch above the work piece before I strike an arc to get the argon flowing down the torch. After I have done my weld, I leave the torch in position until the long post flow stops. I have had the tungsten out 75 mm with this technique. (Keeping in mind of course do drafts.)

 

[CKJeff]

Pedrobedro - you can get extra long ceramics for most standard torches. Some of them are around 75 mm long. Go to www.ckworldwide.com and click on consumables then on 3 Series and see what we have to offer for this type of problem.

 

[hotrodder]

Cheers guys.

Pedro, there's a predecessor that goes with this thread here, iirc Rick was looking at long ceramics when he stumbled across the CK kit

My thinking regarding gas flows and area of gas shield, geometry of the part is going to play a large role. Here we're talking about small diameter pipe, gas is going to flow away similar to outside corners. Need to play around some smoke and various flow rates to get some meaningful, easy to to define results but too high a flow rate can make things worse and i'm thinking that a really big gas cup might too, especially if it needs high flow rates to work. That'd fit with your findings that the CK monster is better with fillets and corners where the argon can pool in many cases

Rick, missed the bit on the micro torch last time. IIRC the CK ones are higher rated (amperage) than the equivialant weldcraft but all of the aircooled ones have VERY low amperage ratings. Probably be OK for the sort of stainless work you do but typically most cases where a tiny micro torch would help me with regards to access i'm working on a casting and without stupid amounts of preheat they're no good due to the amperage needed

The best (vlaue for money/usefullness) solution for you (inside collectors and similar) i think would be something wp9 sized, either a flex neck or a pencil/straight torch. Going watercooled would add more options regarding micro torches with better amperage ratings although a wp20 type torch is the same size as a #9 and has higher amperage capabilities than an air cooled #26. Don't know about aircooled but there are flexible necked watercooled pencil torches (wp25?) available too

 

[Shox Dr]

Startparts do them Hotrodder.

I have a WP20F and the Long Pencil WP25