Clarke 130A versus R-Tech 180

[Summerjo]

Hi. Please excuse my post if its been covered before! I’m a parent of a 17 year old who has wanted a welder for a few years - and now is the time. A neighbour advised us to go to Machine Mart - which we did, and a helpful man there almost persuaded us to buy a Clarke 130A no gas/gas mig welder. £322 plus an adapter to run gas, plus gas which is £17.99 a can, and then welding wire £8.
Since this trip, I have discovered this forum & read lots, watched a few videos and got a bit lost.
I am now leaning towards an R-tech 180 which at £534 is more expensive and I’m not sure what else i need and if the little bottles are right or just very expensive and we should look at that too.
I’m factoring into my thinking that my son sets high standards for himself and will be frustrated if it is a poor job - he wants clean welds. So I don’t want to buy badly. He has been mad about cars for years and owns a few cars that all need welding. Am I right in thinking that the Clarke welder might be a frustrating machine and the extra money spent on a better machine will repay in dividends if it gives more control and a better finish?
Thanks. Jo

 

[Mark 2]

The r-tech is a much better machine, also gas/gasless.
The small disposable bottles are a waste of money.
Welcome to the forum.

 

[Summerjo]

The r-tech is a much better machine, also gas/gasless.
The small disposable bottles are a waste of money.
Welcome to the forum.

Thanks Mark2
Nicely summed up! Jo

 

[Craig-SM]

I went from a Clarke welder to Rtech as the former had limited power settings so needed to rely on the wire speed settings. Sounds easy enough but a lot of hit and miss to get a good weld and what worked indoors doesn’t work outdoors.
The Rtech you have more control with both power and wire speed, add to this the a euro torch connector so you can easily add a longer torch lead if needed.

 

[Summerjo]

I went from a Clarke welder to Rtech as the former had limited power settings so needed to rely on the wire speed settings. Sounds easy enough but a lot of hit and miss to get a good weld and what worked indoors doesn’t work outdoors.
The Rtech you have more control with both power and wire speed, add to this the a euro torch connector so you can easily add a longer torch lead if needed.

Thats really helpful. Thank you. There are a few things you’ve mentioned I hadn’t even thought about.

 

[Dragnet]

If he's never welded before then you can factor that in, too. I took six weeks of evening classes with a friend of mine where we did arc and MIG welding. I bought a Sealey SuperMIG 130XT from a chap on Gumtree for £50 and have been using that for my car and the 3mm weathering steel plate covering my house extension. I got a pallet of BOC gear for £150 on eBay which included a nice transformer arc welder, and an oil-filled one, as well as a large TIG setup. I haven't tried the TIG, but the oil-filled has been restored and is very nice to use, as is the Transarc Tradesman.

I suppose what I'm saying is that you can get good machines for less secondhand if you would like to save money. The Sealey I have is fine for the thin panels and thicker sections in my car, and i can move it around. I could probably feel the advantage of a more highly specified machine with a better torch (I had to do some repairs to it) now I have some experience. However, with the money saved I have a 30l Integra 300 Bar cylinder of Ferromaxx 7 welding gas from Air Products. You'll need to rent the cylinder and pay per refill. I do a bit of welding every week, and the cylinder lasts approximately a year. I think it costs about £120 annual rental and then something less than that per refill. The transformer-based arc welders are very good to use, and are a lot cheaper secondhand than new inverter ones (and more repairable).

 

[Craig-SM]

One thing I didn’t mention is to get a proper gas bottle. The Rtech comes with a regulator for proper gas bottles. The Clarke a disposable bottle gas regulator and those are useless and expensive to use. A proper May cost you more to start with but you’ll get consistent results and the gas per litre is much cheaper.

 

[Summerjo]

If he's never welded before then you can factor that in, too. I took six weeks of evening classes with a friend of mine where we did arc and MIG welding. I bought a Sealey SuperMIG 130XT from a chap on Gumtree for £50 and have been using that for my car and the 3mm weathering steel plate covering my house extension. I got a pallet of BOC gear for £150 on eBay which included a nice transformer arc welder, and an oil-filled one, as well as a large TIG setup. I haven't tried the TIG, but the oil-filled has been restored and is very nice to use, as is the Transarc Tradesman.

I suppose what I'm saying is that you can get good machines for less secondhand if you would like to save money. The Sealey I have is fine for the thin panels and thicker sections in my car, and i can move it around. I could probably feel the advantage of a more highly specified machine with a better torch (I had to do some repairs to it) now I have some experience. However, with the money saved I have a 30l Integra 300 Bar cylinder of Ferromaxx 7 welding gas from Air Products. You'll need to rent the cylinder and pay per refill. I do a bit of welding every week, and the cylinder lasts approximately a year. I think it costs about £120 annual rental and then something less than that per refill. The transformer-based arc welders are very good to use, and are a lot cheaper secondhand than new inverter ones (and more repairable).

Thanks Dragnet, I should say that pretty much everything that comes into this house is secondhand - and we’re really keen on that, but in this instance theres a few reasons for buying new. First off, we don’t really know what we’re doing, so buying secondhand could mean we buy something broken or needing replacement elements and we just felt this time around we should go for a new piece of kit that had a guarantee and which we could say with some confidence to our son; its great kit, and you can achieve great things with it! (I still like the idea of 2nd hand - but am quite committed to new for this). Ideally yes to a college course; but Exeter college are insisting our son is 19 in order to do it, so, again, thats another reason for buying new; he can’t wait a few years (& why should he?!) The forum is coming good though, and I feel its a very supportive community. The gas bottle rental is more expensive than I’d hoped. Can you buy them secondhand? Thanks! Jo

 

[Summerjo]

One thing I didn’t mention is to get a proper gas bottle. The Rtech comes with a regulator for proper gas bottles. The Clarke a disposable bottle gas regulator and those are useless and expensive to use. A proper May cost you more to start with but you’ll get consistent results and the gas per litre is much cheaper.

Thanks again Craig. Yes, I had misgivings about those little gas canister in the shop but the nice salesman reassured me ‘they’re great & last longer than you think…’ fortunately, I like to do my own research… so… yes… am now looking into the proper gas bottles.

 

[Craig-SM]

Thanks again Craig. Yes, I had misgivings about those little gas canister in the shop but the nice salesman reassured me ‘they’re great & last longer than you think…’ fortunately, I like to do my own research… so… yes… am now looking into the proper gas bottles.

The pressure is inconsistent so you end up disposing of the bottle before it’s empty. Even with the Clarke welder and a proper bottle the difference in reproducing is night and day.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I had misgivings about those little gas canister

I started with those...just a waste of money. I use rent free cylinders now (lots of places do them)...I think rent free is a good way to go for infrequent hobby use.

When you get to looking at the welding mask I'd suggest buying one of the newer "true colour" ones...not a lot more money but very handy as the vision is a lot better than the old green screen ones.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

The r-tech is a much better machine,

Plus their after-sales Customer service is excellent.

@Summerjo Welcome to the forum fella , plenty of sound advice and help available for the asking. Hope your lad gets organised soon, it'd be a pity to see his enthusiasm wane.

 

[not done it yet]

Clarke sell all sorts of things. One might say they are not specialists for any of their products.

People don’t buy Honda generators rather than Clarke for no good reason. The same can be said of all their in-house lines, I would suggest.

I have bought a few things from Machinemart, over the years. Only bought because they were a cheap option. Neither particularly over-awed by the quality nor the durability and ability of the items. They would be described as ‘cheap and average’ as the best description I would provide for their wares.

Paying about twice the amount for a claimed similar machine will usually get something more able, durable or user-friendly.

The R-tech will weld at 180A, or whatever the specs state, I expect. 180A is a street ahead of a machine that will do (but likely only just) 130A. Both will cost more with the extras always required. I am confident that R-tech customer service would be superior to that of Machinemart.

There is also the small print of ‘service factor’. I don’t know for how long either of those options would weld continuously at 130A. An important requirement if used seriously (as opposed to a hobbyist). Somehow, l expect the Clarke will be rather limited at full power. But check it out for any comparison.

Lots of things to consider. I recently bought a Lidl plasma cutter. It was cheap and bought as a machine with a 3 year guarantee. It may well outlast its warranty, but I still feel the equivalent machine from R-tech would do a better job - but at higher cost. For something used regularly, I would have not gone to Lidl.

The same applies to other places such as Screwfix, Toolstation, etc. Good for some things, less so for other stocked items.

Given a choice, I would likely buy the R-tech over the Clarke. You pays your money and youtakes your choice, as they say.

 

[Summerjo]

So many helpful replies! Thank you to everyone who took time to offer words of advice.
I think I’m persuaded that the Clarke version isn’t going to be the investment - we want to buy once and for it to be good enough to get a good quality result. So, with that in mind, I think we have to pay a bit more to get to the right purchase. He’s young, so we want it to last him several years, and also in the mix here is that the college has withdrawn his level 3 automotive course (a little aside here; but colleges want to produce future mechanics from classrooms not workshops… t-levels are replacing practical based btecs. No good will come of this) So this is essentially going to be how he learns - with hands on experimentation at home with a welder. YIKES! We have already got a vizor helmet (2 infact) and gloves, and welding overalls. So, we are really just looking to get the right welder in our sights now.
I am sure theres lots more I should ask, but thanks for all your help so far! Jo

 

[Summerjo]

Lots of things to consider. I recently bought a Lidl plasma cutter. It was cheap and bought as a machine with a 3 year guarantee. It may well outlast its warranty, but I still feel the equivalent machine from R-tech would do a better job - but at higher cost. For something used regularly, I would have not gone to Lidl.

I had to google ‘plasma cutter’ blimey. Thats what the sell in the middle aisle is it? Looks blooming lethal… but fun…!

 

[JOEPRO]

I have an R Tech 180 and it's a very nice welder to use. I upgraded to the inverter R tech after several years with a SIP Autoplus conventional MIG welder.

The inverter type MIG welders are the way to go. With a rent free Gas bottle. I use the R Tech for light fab work and car welding.

 

[Summerjo]

I have an R Tech 180 and it's a very nice welder to use. I upgraded to the inverter R tech after several years with a SIP Autoplus conventional MIG welder.

The inverter type MIG welders are the way to go. With a rent free Gas bottle. I use the R Tech for light fab work and car welding.

Thanks for the endorsement! I’ll look into rent free gas bottles next!

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Thanks for the endorsement! I’ll look into rent free gas bottles next!

I use SGS rent free hobby weld which is the argon/CO2 mix...there will be someone local who stocks it I would think.

 

[Summerjo]

I use SGS rent free hobby weld which is the argon/CO2 mix...there will be someone local who stocks it I would think.

Thanks for that detail. Yes I think this is just something I’ve never looked for before… it looks like its readily available!

 

[Richiew]

The R-Tech allows you to stick weld too, which is a bonus. It's a cheap method of welding which doesn't need costly gas. Only useful for thicker material, but if your lad is enthusiastic he will want to have a go at that too.