coolant (for lathe).. with air ?

[knighty]

just watching some of this video here..

his coolant system has two taps, one for coolant and one for compressed air... so he has a fine mist of coolant under pressure....

what's the advantage of that over the normal flow of coolant ?

only thing I can think of is it's blowing the chips/swarf away ?

 

[T0rnado69]

i would this you have the air power to blow the chips away as you say.
but also use less coolant then if you just flooded coolant.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Good morning knighty.
The purpose of this is termed (MQL) micro quantity lubrication. Most lathe lubrication is done by 'flood'. Where the lubricant and coolant is a water based formulation. Generally soluble oil and water. The soluble oil is the lubricant and the water is the coolant. This has two effects, the water will cool the entire job and tool, however the tool need to run at the correct temperature to operate correctly, this results in thermal shock to the tool causing heat cracks which prematurely destroy the tool (carbide insert). The soluble oil is a poor lubricant compared to specific lubricants for specific jobs. This is also coupled to bacteria in the water based coolant and disposal costs.
MQL on the other hand generates almost dry chips, there is no thermal stress to the tool, the correct lub for the job, tools lasts much longer and there is no cleanup required. The only down side of MQL is the cost.
I have a MQL setup for my cnc machine when doing alli. Primarily to stop the alli sticking to the milling cutter and it also helps to blow the chips away to stop secondary cutting, which is a problem.

 

[Parm]

Good explanation above but seriously not recommended to generate a mist of oil mist in the manner as described above. Water mix metal working fluids are highly potent respiratory and skin sensitisers i.e. They cause asthma. Largest out break of occupational asthma anywhere in the western world was at the old power train factory near Birmingham, over 100 people will never work again due contracting occupational asthma as a result of regularly inhaling coolant mist.

This isn't a recommended practice in the UK

 

[MattF]

On the subject of alu', found out that washing up liquid makes a passable fluid for aiding cutting and preventing bit clogging, the other day. Whilst having one of those moments where you're practically losing the will to live watching a couple of blokes trying to countersink some holes in alu', I went and collared the one thing I could think of on the site which wouldn't be detrimental to the work and which might help. Worked surprisingly well, both as a cutting aid and to prevent clogging of the bit.

 

[knighty]

glad I asked here... I was about to order some bits to make an oil+air coolant thingie to give it a try... guess I'll stick with the flooded system I already have instead

thanks guys :-)

 

[Bladevane]

Another benefit is that the coolant stream is greatly reduced in temperature due to the expansion of the air as leaves the nozzle. The flooding method described above also allows localised boiling of the fluid adjacent to the cutting interface which is probably the reason cracking through thermal fatigue develops.

 

[wyn]

I have used this type of system on a small lathe in my garage. It did a good job of cooling but was also a nightmare as it filled the place with a fine mist which i was breathing

 

[Mr shiney]

I have one on the lathe and the mill. I use a non oil based lubricant thats designed for mist systems. I set it up so its larger droplets and it does not get airborne. Works really well and a lot less mess than the flood coolant.

 

[hareng]

Must admit I did get suckered in 5 yrs ago when coolant pumps kept burning out and to get me out of the proverbial. Did a lot of online checking and the Noga system came out tops which supposedly dont go airborne, it does or can. Setting so it don't go airborne providing droplets does very little except provide menial lubrication for milling cutters it cant handle general basic lathe work above diy level and waste of £120.
I will continue to stick with flood on lathes and mills though does work reasonably ok on bandsaw.

On lathe they do a very poor job of cooling, aluminium heats up mister cant keep up to a point of no misting used at all. Deep boring holes is its worst asset as cant get to the job. Even external cutting 6082 with the right aluminium tips still get the build up on the tips parting off and being slightly adventurous putting a cut on. It will never be used on the lathe again, spot or a squirt of normal coolant from a bottle works a lot better.

The amount of air developed does very little to move the debris face milling and useless for pocket work requiring the air gun to clear debris.
The only advantage or plus from a mist/droplet based system is a minimal mix used, think only went through 1ltr after 2hrs set as high as could just before it became airborne but who cares its cheap enough so not a valid point.
For it to be effective in cooling you will need a multi nozzle setup at least 4. With one nozzle parts will come off uncomfortably hot to the touch, decent tipped cutters generating too much heat for mister to cope with.
Some CNC Pros use multi nozzle setups and free machining aluminiums with numerous pissy cuts, big difference.

Mess with flood coolant?, common sense to set it so it don't.
Can also use for cleaning down the machine after a bowt, works wonders.
Does the best job of cooling tool and part mist types can only dream of.
Can use with through coolant type tools direct, have a fair few that only work with coolant.

There you have it from someone that uses machines for a living and has both systems.

 

[oilyneil]

I'm nearly finished building one of these for the bridgeport,,its a no fog mister using air entrapped oil rather than sending it out like a spray gun,,hopefully not foggy !
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/uncat...nes/102934-built-fog-less-coolant-mister.html

 

[ukracer]

just watching some of this video here..

his coolant system has two taps, one for coolant and one for compressed air... so he has a fine mist of coolant under pressure....

what's the advantage of that over the normal flow of coolant ?

only thing I can think of is it's blowing the chips/swarf away ?

More surface area to absorb the heat . This is why we use high pressure fog hose reels to fight fires. you use a lot less water as well as being more efficient.

My guess is it might not cling and throw at you from the job or chuck..... but I may be wrong on that.

 

[Mr shiney]

Must admit I did get suckered in 5 yrs ago when coolant pumps kept burning out and to get me out of the proverbial. Did a lot of online checking and the Noga system came out tops which supposedly dont go airborne, it does or can. Setting so it don't go airborne providing droplets does very little except provide menial lubrication for milling cutters it cant handle general basic lathe work above diy level and waste of £120.
I will continue to stick with flood on lathes and mills though does work reasonably ok on bandsaw.

On lathe they do a very poor job of cooling, aluminium heats up mister cant keep up to a point of no misting used at all. Deep boring holes is its worst asset as cant get to the job. Even external cutting 6082 with the right aluminium tips still get the build up on the tips parting off and being slightly adventurous putting a cut on. It will never be used on the lathe again, spot or a squirt of normal coolant from a bottle works a lot better.

The amount of air developed does very little to move the debris face milling and useless for pocket work requiring the air gun to clear debris.
The only advantage or plus from a mist/droplet based system is a minimal mix used, think only went through 1ltr after 2hrs set as high as could just before it became airborne but who cares its cheap enough so not a valid point.
For it to be effective in cooling you will need a multi nozzle setup at least 4. With one nozzle parts will come off uncomfortably hot to the touch, decent tipped cutters generating too much heat for mister to cope with.
Some CNC Pros use multi nozzle setups and free machining aluminiums with numerous pissy cuts, big difference.

Mess with flood coolant?, common sense to set it so it don't.
Can also use for cleaning down the machine after a bowt, works wonders.
Does the best job of cooling tool and part mist types can only dream of.
Can use with through coolant type tools direct, have a fair few that only work with coolant.

There you have it from someone that uses machines for a living and has both systems.

None of that made any sense to me. Do you have an English translation?

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Good morning gents.
I must of not explained myself correctly.
The misting system dosn't use water based soluble oil and water. There is no cooling with this method just micro lub at the work face. The amount of lub being used could not mist up any area. If you are getting misting then you are using way too much. Also there are fluids for different materials. Hope this helps.

 

[knighty]

where can you but the little block the hose comes out of ? and/or what are they called so I can find some ?


oops, that one is for mist not flood, my mistake, I need some for flood

but... guess I can just plug the air hole and use them for flood ?

 

[hareng]

View attachment 92885


None of that made any sense to me. Do you have an English translation?

In short theyre as good as useless.

 

[Mr shiney]

In short theyre as good as useless.

Works fine for me.

 

[hareng]

As said above maybe ok for diy, anything more forget it.
Better suited for cleaning up by surface milling and finishing cuts o/d on lathe, the job warms up more than the capabilities of the mister, hence would need 4 nozzles as the pros use.

 

[Mr shiney]

Like I said, works fine for me.

 

[tinman123]

i have one of those cheap misters here and i find it good enough to the job it needs to do when i would use it, shorter stuff id brush on oil and id mostly mill ms dry anyways with only air to clear the cuts, iirc it cost me £3......

i bought the cheap one to see if id use it and if i did id consider the noga, i didnt splash out yet but i might.
i do like oilyneil's plan and sometime i might convert this one of mine to that type, i have a filter housing sitting about.