Do I need 2 mig torches?

[paulmitchell1984]

Hey guys
Recently bought a jasic 200 mig welder now iv not had masses of time to play with it, I managed to weld some 3mm box up nicely but tonight I had some 5mm box to weld to some 10mm plate, managed to weld it ok on a lower temp bit just thought if have a blast at full power on an off cut of the 10mm plate,
There seemed to be little or no control of the wire which I had to have turned right up aswell, eventually after about 3 minutes of playing making the nozzle really flimsy due to heat and then ended up welding the tip up as in burnback took it up the tip.
Now I thi k off hand its .8 wire but can clarify that if needs be.

It's the torch that came with it so not sure what its rated to but I assume it's for lower temps, would bigger torch make any difference to the welding?

Sorry for the long post and hope it makes sense.

 

[Gareth0123]

You need to identify your torch type and then read the instructions.

I'd been using a type MB25 torch on my single phase welders for almost 4 years; first on my Sealey 215 amp and then my R-tech 250 amp machine before I realised I was working well beyond the rated capacity for the MB25 torch and that is why I was consuming what I considered to be a lot of front end consumables.

The MB 24 and MB 25 torches are rated for a max of 250 amps with pure CO2 and 200 amps with mixed argon/Co2 gases, I use a 15/85 mix and was well over capacity.

I purchased a second hand MB36 torch from another member on this forum and tried it for six months on my set running 0.8mm A18 mig wire to see how many front end consumables I was getting through and hot wire jams I was experiencing, and then compare the two different sizes. Using the larger MB36 torch I saved on average £6.00 per week and no hot wire jams when directly compared to the MB25 torch. After my six months trial I had saved enough to purchase a new MB36 torch on a 4 metre umbilical with a 2 year warranty and a big bag full of front end replacement parts.

Some people look at my MB36 torch, pick it up and say "wow, that's too big and too heavy to use" to which I always reply "man up man!"

I can run from 30amps right trough to the top of the shop 250 amps with ease and without an issue, Over the last 18 months I have saved just over £320.00 on top of the initial purchase or about £450.00 overall even though I am using the more expensive Paraweld consumables. Ironically I sold on the second-hand MB36 torch to a company I contract for and now use that torch 4 afternoons a week, but they will only purchase cheap eBay spurious consumables which I get through at twice the rate of the 30% dearer paraweld bits & pieces... but hey-ho it's their money not mine.
However, I have put my foot down with them and I will not use anything but Paraweld shrouds these days, the cheaper Parker brand nearly did for me as they were zinc coated and gave me zinc fume fever after only 15 minutes usage.... vomiting, headaches. bad dreams and hallucinations for one night, and after I made an official complaint this situation is still in the hands of the HSE and the Norfolk trading standards office.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

As @Gareth0123 has stated the bigger / higher rated torch the less trouble, only down side is the weight. I had been using the MB36 torch on 1.2mm solid wire and when I started it was OK, however once you did a few welds the front end would get hot and you get feed issues (fusing back to the tip uneven feed ). I then got a Binzel 455T torch which is much higher rated than the MB36, changed up to silver 10mm tips and again once you get a few welds up, started to give trouble. Now the 455T Binzel gun is a beast and rated for 450amps at 60% duty cycle, I thought no way I would have trouble with this gun. I was wrong. I was only welding with up to 340amps, well inside the rating. I have now fitted the water cooled mig gun MB501 and using the standard tip from the MB36 have put 4 rolls of 1.2 wire on the same front end. You work this out for yourself, I have a mig setup with .8 wire welding 2.5mm and up to 4mm using a MB24 gun. It is ok for this and the welds are not that long, about 40mm long, short break then go again. The MB24 for this is OK small enough the get easily into the tighter areas, but crank the machine up to do 6mm in spray and about 300mm long, and you don'y get 1/4 the way through before you start getting the wire gittering (sticking and then letting go) in the tip. If you continue it will just jam up and stop altogether. Am I supprised that when you tried to do 10mm you had trouble NO, some of us here have been through this before.

 

[earthman]

Never even thought about zinc being on shrouds!

 

[Gareth0123]

Here is a photo of the MB36 shroud that made me rather ill.

A. The Parker Brand MB36 Shroud that had a zinc covering and from which the fumes made me very ill when I was using it.

B. Another Parker Brand MB36 Shroud from the same packet as A and which I used as a control to confirm the zinc coating: <10 minutes work at 210amps.

C. New and Unused Paraweld MB36 Shroud for comparison.

 

[Ed.]

I have 3 torches for the same welder, a Tweco compatible North #1 for 0.6mm wire, a MB350 for Ally but rarely used it up to now as I only have just got an Argon cylinder yesterday, and my daily use torch which is a Tweco #4 for everything (except for the 0.6mm wire) but that one does get hot especially when using 350A, although it has never given me any problem but it is a heavy torch. I wouldn't mind a water cooled torch that does about 250-300A which would be smaller and lighter. The bigger torches do a good job but the North #1 is a pleasure to use, it is so light and small it almost feels like a toy, It is supposed to go up to 180A but since I use it exclusively for the 0.6mm wire I don't usually go past 120-130A.

My welder can do 600A but since I don't have any requirements to use 1.6mm wire there is no point in getting another even bigger torch (which would also mean getting a thicker work lead too). So "paulmitchel198", yes I would say you need more than 1 torch for your welder especially if you use the welder regularly on the highest settings. The other thing is some torches are built better than others and you may also be having trouble welding by reaching your duty cycle on your torch seeing as you trying to weld at your machine max amps for maybe too long. That actually may be the cause of the issue you are having. I know you said you welded about 3 minutes but you can get carried away whilst welding so maybe it might have been 4 or 5 minutes?

I just did a quick look at some Jasic 200 MIG welders and in one advert it said it came with a MB15 torch which is definitely not big enough to handle the 200A, so I would check to see what torch you actually have, if it is a MB15 then yes you will need to get another larger torch, something like a MB24, also if you use a mixed gas then that also reduces the amperage you can weld at. Torches also have a duty cycle you should be aware of. Hope this helps.

 

[Dcal]

Depends what you are welding.
I have a 250A Rtech and usually only have a MB15 on it, but that because i mostly weld car body work with it.
The smaller torch certainly helps me get into awkward corners, but if I am welding anything thick (not often) I do put a MB25 on it.
Mind you I'd say you are at (or past) the limits of your welder expecting it to weld 10mm steel.