Do I really need an auto mask?

[I T]

Hi, first post and apologies if this is one of those questions that is asked repeatedly.

I am going back to welding after a few years out doing other things but there seems to have been quite a few changes happened.

I have always used a fixed shade mask, usually around shade 10-11 for anything from stainless TIG to carbon MMA work and reading some (many) threads on here it seems auto masks are getting highly recommended but it looks to be a minefield getting the right one on a budget. Since I don't want to shell out £100-£400 on a mask I might not get on with I figured it would be best to ask here first.

From what I can gather the likes of true fusion and parweld make decent hobby helmets but for everyday use it needs to be speedglas etc.

I guess what I'm asking is can a hobby mask be used everyday in the short term to see how I get on with them or do I need to spend the extra £££s to see the benefit?

 

[cumbriasteve]

An ebay cheapie (£23ish) will do you fine to judge if you like them, the main difference is the shell is not of the same quality (bit lightweight and easier to break) as the more professional masks and the headbands can be a bit hit and miss.

 

[BrokenBiker]

I have a cheap autobdark, a slightly more expensive auto dark and an old fashioned shade 10with a spare shade 9 lense. Cant see much difference between the 2 autos but i can see a much clearer image with the mineral glass on low amperage stuff below around 50 amps

 

[julianthegypsy]

I always used a fixed mask when I was learning arc welding ahem, a number of years ago. Having gone back to welding and doing a lot of mig, I was amazed at the difference using an auto mask, it's a whole other world being able to see where you're starting. If I was arc welding I'd consider it essential, I still remember scratching and hoping then having a look to see where the rod was when it didn't strike and getting a flash etc etc.

 

[outofthefire]

Personally if your going to weld professionally i'd accept that auto helmets are the way forward and just buy a decent helmet to start with. Personally I prefer Optrel, but plenty of folk like speedglas and a few of the lads I work with use Jackson helmets.

 

[wyn]

I use an optrel....mainly for the adjustable shade....i always flip it down just as i start the weld and don't particularly look through it and then start welding.

 

[I T]

Thanks for the replies, I can see the advantage of the auto masks but every time I try to find a decent one the budget seems to go up.

I wondered if something like this would do to start with? http://www.ten-uk.com/intel-optixaspic.html excuse the design it was just the first one I could link to. They are cheaper on ebay and I quite like the idea of a larger viewing area and extra sensors for a couple of quid more than a standard auto. If I get on with it I could look to get a better quality one at a later date and use the TF for home use welding my land rover.

Or would I be better off looking at something like this to start with? http://www.weldequip.com/swp-eliminator-xv.htm

 

[piman]

Hello IT,

after struggling with my first auto helmet (Budget) when welding low current (TIG) I got one of the SWP Auto Darkening helmets sold here by Weldquip (About £60.00) and I have been very pleased with it, much better than my first. I would add that I am not a full time welder and the welding I do is dependant on what jobs come up.

Alec

 

[Robotstar5]

Personally I prefer Optrel, but plenty of folk like speedglas and a few of the lads I work with use Jackson helmets.

I use a Jackson auto helmet and find it OK, but I don't weld all day every day.

I did try a fixed shade "nod down" helmet but found the torch or stick had moved before starting!

 

[BrokenBiker]

I use a Jackson auto helmet and find it OK, but I don't weld all day every day.

I did try a fixed shade "nod down" helmet but found the torch or stick had moved before starting!

i was like that until my tutor showed me it was better to arc up in the weld path then move back when you can see what you are doing. Also covered up the arc strikes, not sure how it would fare with an xray weld but its how i was taught and it helped me a lot with the nod down masks and i still do it with auto dark lids too

 

[Glyn]

Quick question. Do any older welders, who started welding before auto masks were around, actually look through the mask before you start welding? Or, not automatically raise the mask as soon as you stop? Hard habit to break if you 'grew up' with a fixed shade.

 

[BrokenBiker]

i wasn't allowed to use my auto dark on my mma course. Had to use the supplied shade 10 masks. The tutors said auto darks were making life too easy and we had to learn the old fashioned way

 

[norlander]

You would probably be ok with a cheapie to begin with, you then have a spare auto mask for when you need a mate to hold a workpiece in position while you tack it.
I use a speedglas with the side panels because:

I can see anything coming my way when I am masked up-(important for me when working at the side of the road)
I can grind and plasma cut with the same mask if needed
I can hold and tack a piece with out doing the old line up and close your eyes routine
adjust shade for 1mm tungstens/low amps

most of the above is not exclusive to speedglas helmets, I just like the sidepanels.

reason most go for the upmarket makes is availabilty of spares but also factors like the number of sensors and battery operated as opposed to solar operation. Auto masks tend to speed up work and make life easier(and arguably safer maybe) and you can do Darth Vader impressions without walking into benches etc..

 

[norlander]

i wasn't allowed to use my auto dark on my mma course. Had to use the supplied shade 10 masks. The tutors said auto darks were making life too easy and we had to learn the old fashioned way

-we had to use hand held shields at tech college and at work-head masks were not allowed-there were no auto darkening masks then.
There were some good points to hand helds-you could hold them away from your face and they did not trap fumes, plus you could see a thumping great RSJ being craned about the site out the corner of your eye.

One point about learning the old fashioned way is that you can still operate when your hi tech bit of kit does not work.

 

[julianthegypsy]

I still have a couple of hand helds kicking around the workshop, but I can't remember the last time I used them. I keep them in case I have a visitor who wants to see what's happening.

 

[fixerupper]

I like the AGA weldoscope masks with a thin half darkend slot to see through to get set up then raise your head and away you go ... very comfy .. I still use mine sometimes even though I have a Auto helmet ...jeff........ can you still get 'em.?

 

[hotrodder]

I still do the nodding thing with my speedglas. Personally i find the being able to see with it down is only really useful for two things, tacking up and restricted access work when part of what you're welding is in the way to nod a mask down. The main reason i use an auto mask is variable shade as on any typical day i might be welding sub 1mm stainless through to repairing ally castings

All solar powered lenses have batteries, many of them are hidden away and not designed to be replaced though so you have to cut the thing open if they die or buy a new one. Even on spendy masks which is the sole reason why i'd never buy an Optrel, assuming they still pull that nonsense. There's no hard and fast rules but generally you pay for optical quality* and the ability to work with low amp TIG although the later point especially can be random... the lower end models from the premium brands are often worse at low amp TIG than a cheapy despite costing more

* the optical classes are scored from 1 (better) to 3 and are tagged onto the EN379 number for example the SWP mask mentioned...

Top right of pic the 1/3/1 refers to optical class/diffusion of light/variation of luminous transmittance (whatever that means). There's also a 4th optional rating which is about angle dependance. That SWP is pretty highly regarded by a few members here including those that earn a living welding, compared to a top of the range speedglas (1/2/2/3 optical stuff) it's a little heavier despite having a smaller lens but then it's less than 1/4 price...

 

[I T]

Thanks for all the replies I have ordered a true fusion with iq1700 (1,1,1,2) filter to try that should hopefully be ok. Going to see how it goes and then will either order a few spares or may go for something a little more reputable. I quite like the look of the speedglas but for the price I will be trying before I buy.

 

[Cyberprog]

I bought a cheapo one - only problem with it I found was if I looked at my halogen heater - the glass blacked out!

 

[gulf]

Not talking about anyone in particular here, but its funny how many people shell out 3 figure sums for auto helmets when they can hardly weld,seen afew guys do that,all the gear-no idea Nobody should be without one at the sub 40quid mark the ebay ones are at now though,makes life so much easier.