EGR working thingie?

[graffian]

My dads saab, has had an ornage light on on the dash for about 6 months.
It started running rough, felt like a fuel issue and I couldn't remember ever changing the fuel filter.
So I put a new fuel filter on it.
Nope no difference.
Took the egr valve off and it was full o ****e, cleaned it.
Before I put it back decided to test the actuator[solenoid?] thingie.
It's got ~8Ω across the terminals, so I thought maybe a solenoid. I splashed some volts on it, nope does nothing.
I grabbed the shiny sticky out bit of the actuator and it seemed not to rotate or move; after a few seconds of pulling and
rotating, it freely rotates and moves back and forth around 3/16".
Still nothing happens when some volts are put across it.


I take it it's dead and there is no electrical cleverness that moves it?

 

[m_c]

What age and engine?

 

[graffian]

2006 9-3 1.9 diesel. Seems it’s a Z19DTH engine, All I know is it’s one if the ones that goes broom and ticckty shake.

I have bought a new EGR, so shopping is by pushbike this Friday, unless postie gets his finger out.

 

[m_c]

I thought the EGR on them was a 5 pin, with position feedback?
It has been a good few years since I've worked on anything with that engine though.

I think they are just a basic solenoid though, so the only thing would be, do you have the polarity the correct way?
However IIRC there is no vent between the valve and solenoid, so carbon gradually works it way into the solenoid.

 

[dobbslc]

Z19DTH

The sight of that engine code makes me feel I'll!
If it's the egr valve solenoid you're talking about if I remember correctly it should pull in and out at 12 volts.
Is it round the rear right side of the engine?

 

[premmington]

The sight of that engine code makes me feel I'll!
If it's the egr valve solenoid you're talking about if I remember correctly it should pull in and out at 12 volts.
Is it round the rear right side of the engine?

Z19DTH Fiat designed engine made in India.

 

[Kayos]

Z19DTH Fiat designed engine made in India.

My wife recently chopped in a 7 year old Nissan Juke that she owned without a single issue for 4 years for a 3 year old Fiat 500x, her dream car apparently. From me she received and early Christmas present of AA membership

 

[rcx132]

How do you know it's a solenoid EGR and not a stepper motor?

 

[dobbslc]

It went clonk clonk in and out. Open or shut nothing in between.

 

[graffian]

The sight of that engine code makes me feel I'll!
If it's the egr valve solenoid you're talking about if I remember correctly it should pull in and out at 12 volts.
Is it round the rear right side of the engine?

Two pins. And if it's a solenoid I can't see polarity matters, but if for some strange reason.. So I tried both ways.
Shiny - visible - bit of solenoid is freely moving but I guess the core is separate and isn't[moving]!

<later>Bought one so I might as well open the old one and see what gives.
Gave it some half arsed loving taps, quite a few, and was just thinking about letting mr angry grinder loose on it.
Then the centre bit stayed out, it could be pushed in and a spring pushed it back out!
I just whacked some volts across it and it's fixed.

 

[m_c]

How do you know it's a solenoid EGR and not a stepper motor?

Shape of the valve usually.
Solenoids are typically cylindrical inline with the actual valve, whereas motors are typically offset to the side and drive the valve through some gears.

And I've never seen an EGR that uses a stepper motor, if they have a motor, it's usually a basic DC motor with a position sensor. ECU simply drives the motor in the required direction to reach the desired position point.

 

[dobbslc]

@graffian
If you get a small mirror and look into the port where the egr valve goes you'll be amazed as the ****e in there, get a vacuum cleaner and tape a 1/4" piece of tube to the end and use that to suck the carbon out as you scrape it off.
Also there's a small hard plastic hose that goes between the egr valve body or head and down the back of the block to (I think) the exhaust / cat, these crack and cause fault codes, you need to get u der the car and feel for it.
Also the swirl flaps can cause trouble where all the carbon build up jams them and the ball joints pop off the drive motor or it siezes, again more fault codes are caused.
A new egr valve used to last me about 18 months then cause trouble again, I think once these engines get to a certain point they are a PITA forever more!
The egr fault also seems to prevent the DPF from regenerating thus causing that to fill up with soot, you can do a forced regen on it with a decent OBD2 tool but you need to fix the problems first.
Good luck.

 

[graffian]

Isn't this how the egr hole is meant to look?

So what do you do with this:

I was given it along time ago, only thing on it apart from the sticker is OBDII in the plastic moulding.
I did try it on the blokes Mondeo, but I couldn't make any sense of the programme that was with it;

Will it work with the saab?

I have just been reading about swirl flaps, I haven't heard of the things before.
The foam under the engine cover has started to disintegrate, I was poking around in the foam wondering if I could get a vacuum cleaner hose around
the manifold and I found some sooty things, I am guessing there should be soot around them. I was going to pull the manifold to clean it, then I saw it was
going to take me more than ten minutes to remove it.

 

[dobbslc]

That's not as bad as my one used to get

 

[rcx132]

Shape of the valve usually.
Solenoids are typically cylindrical inline with the actual valve, whereas motors are typically offset to the side and drive the valve through some gears.

And I've never seen an EGR that uses a stepper motor, if they have a motor, it's usually a basic DC motor with a position sensor. ECU simply drives the motor in the required direction to reach the desired position point.

I've been working with 1990's Suzukis and they use stepper motors, though early ones were vacuum. It's all I know so I thought that might be the norm.

 

[Morrisman]

I hear on the diesel Mondeo group about guys removing both EGR and DPF and having the engine control module modified such that they can still easily pass emissions at MOT time.

If it were that easily why didn’t the factory do it?

 

[E T]

If it were that easily why didn’t the factory do it?

Just look at what happened to VW when they started being "creative " in the emissions department.

 

[Farside]

I hear on the diesel Mondeo group about guys removing both EGR and DPF and having the engine control module modified such that they can still easily pass emissions at MOT time.

If it were that easily why didn’t the factory do it?

The mods probably make it clean at low and high idle settings but full sooty welly everywhere else.

 

[dobbslc]

Rollin coal brother