First attempts at vertical uphill fillet

[FergalFarty]

Last night at my evening course I had my first ever go at vertical fillets. The instructor said you always TIG uphill, whereas MIG can be up or down depending on material thickness. Is there any situation where you would TIG downhill?

Anyway here's some photos of my welds. All 5mm mild steel on a massive Lincoln Squarewave 355, WP26 torch, 2.5mm blue tungsten (I think). Please let me know if you think my diagnosis of the weld problems is correct.

Thanks

Fergal

1st attempt 120A I think. Too cold.

2nd attempt 130A, still too cold.

3rd attempt 140A maybe? started off ok, I think I let the arc get too long on the second half.

4th try 160A and a bit more stickout. Much better!

 

[desmo11225]

Hello Fergal
I have never made any vertical up welds using TIG but only MMA but you may find it easier if you tilt the work piece away from you a few degrees , 5 degrees was allowed years ago for a C & G test piece but take it back maybe 10 to 15 degrees and then bring it forward as you improve , the last few welds as you can see for yourself are not far off it anyway, you are making good progress . Best of Luck desmo11225 Persevere

 

[FergalFarty]

Hi Desmo

Good idea about tilting the work piece. I hadn't thought of that. I'm not going for any certificates or anything so the position doesn't really matter, I just wanted to see if I could do it. Also I found it quite hard to lift my hand up and keep everything steady as I progressed up the weld, so I ended up just keeping my hand on the table and rotating my wrist which caused the torch angle to change as I went up.

 

[Brad93]

You shouldn't mig vertical down if the metal is over 3mm thick.
On your vertical up runs with tig I'd say not enough heat and not a tight enough arc. Looks like your arc was favouring one side of the plate.
Set your plate up dead vertical, don't angle it, that's not going to help you pass a test or in the real world.
Put a mig glove with chopped off fingers over your tig glove and run your hand up the edge of the plate using it to prop.

 

[Brad93]

5mm you want to be at 160 odd with a tight arc and 2.4mm filler wire. You'll have to move fairly quick though as that heat will chase you up the plate. If you put a stop start in the middle drop it 5-10 amps

 

[Richard.]

Is there any situation where you would TIG downhill?

No. Tig welding v down doesn't work. Like Brad said I wouldn't angle the work as this doesn't help when the real job is faced infront of you.
Free hand as said a prop with your last two fingers (torch hand)
Cup walking no need to prop.
You should always learn to free hand even if you chose to walk the cup.

 

[Paul.]

Actually I'm going to disagree, I've run plenty of tig beads vertical down on non structural food industry sheet metal work when a joint needs to be fully welded to be sealed against bugs or water, done properly it is very fast and gives a nice flat bead with almost no distortion, can be done without filler but if filler is needed feed it from the back like the old gas welding rightward technique.

 

[Richard.]

Actually I'm going to disagree, I've run plenty of tig beads vertical down on non structural food industry sheet metal work when a joint needs to be fully welded to be sealed against bugs or water, done properly it is very fast and gives a nice flat bead with almost no distortion, can be done without filler but if filler is needed feed it from the back like the old gas welding rightward technique.

Fair do's paul. It's not something that's worked for me but it's input like that, that makes me want to have another go. Every day is a school day.

 

[Hood]

I tig weld all directions, for example when I was doing the roller system on a boat a month or so back it wasn't possible to really do anything else but down hill due to the shape of the structure, also fed the rod in the normal fashion and no issues. This is Alu so maybe steel is different though.
I find Tig the simplest process for positional welding as long as you can feed in the rod without having to contort yourself, getting too old for that.

 

[WorkshopChris]

You'll have to move fairly quick though as that heat will chase you up the plate.

Good point and the last picture gives a very good example as you can see the heat band start at about 5mm from the weld and once its got to the top the heat has soaked through the hole width (maybe 50mm).

 

[FergalFarty]

Thanks for all the comments. I'll try to go a bit faster and find a way to prop my hand. I'll also try it with some thinner stuff as I did have a go with some 2mm but just ended up blowing holes in it.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Actually I'm going to disagree, I've run plenty of tig beads vertical down on non structural food industry sheet metal work when a joint needs to be fully welded to be sealed against bugs or water, done properly it is very fast and gives a nice flat bead with almost no distortion, can be done without filler but if filler is needed feed it from the back like the old gas welding rightward technique.

Absolutely agree and have done so on, stainless as a times there is no option.

I tig weld all directions, for example when I was doing the roller system on a boat a month or so back it wasn't possible to really do anything else but down hill due to the shape of the structure, also fed the rod in the normal fashion and no issues. This is Alu so maybe steel is different though.
I find Tig the simplest process for positional welding as long as you can feed in the rod without having to contort yourself, getting too old for that.

Again also agree fed the rod in the same 'conventional' position. All you have to do is control the heat input via current setting speed and absolutely arc length