First proper go at ARC

[rich the mechanic]

Having only had a go making a melted mess to prove my welder worked I haven't had any cause to give it a proper go untill today. I have a very old lathe with only a compound slide which you have to move up and down the bed on a T slot so I have been collecting parts since finding out about Gingery lathes to make a sliding bed on that principle. So out with the sticks and the results are...

This is the best bit done last


This what should be a bead and will get ground back for another pass.

I think I should have read the packet on the rods better I had the amps way to high as I was struggling to get it started using the strike method (constant sticking) but did find I had better results with a tap start and probably should had cut a rod in half for my first go just to add a little control when not used to it and as it got shorter I found I got more used to the speed of burn and what my travel speed should be like.

These are the rods that came with the set.




Any thoughts or suggestions (I have read through the guide)

 

[Rig Pig]

Sounds like an interesting project, have you got any pictures of the lathe?

 

[BrokenBiker]

I would say keep a fairly short arc length, and practice your travel speed, and of course the speed the rod needs to be fed in to maintain the same arc length.

not a bad effort though and looks as if it will hold

 

[W.olly]

A few broken beads there, to long an arc, to practice cut the rods down by about half to get better control untill you get used to it, a nice close arc with about 70amps on 2.0 rods. hardest bit is to keep a steady hand and good arc.

 

[rich the mechanic]

A few broken beads there, to long an arc, to practice cut the rods down by about half to get better control untill you get used to it, a nice close arc with about 70amps on 2.0 rods. hardest bit is to keep a steady hand and good arc.

I was using 2mm rods at about 60 amps packet says 45. By the time I got down to half a rod I remembered a post saying about cutting down for better control it was too late by then but next go I will. Steady hand was ok by half rod it was shocking at full length. As for the arc length it was burning back way faster than I expected and took till that last inch to get used to it.

I think with the lower amps the burn is slower well that is my thought please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[rich the mechanic]

Sounds like an interesting project, have you got any pictures of the lathe?

Its there under the steel for the bed I have some others that I will dig up and put in the lathe thread.

 

[Rig Pig]

Nice old machine, how much wear is there on it?

 

[rich the mechanic]

Loads I have just found the thread I was looking for so will move over there.

 

[rich r]

Yes - not too bad for an early attempt. 2.0mm rods aren't the easiest to learn on, so if you can master them, you'll be well away. I'd recommend 2.5mm or even 3.2mm until you get the hang of it, but if you put the practice in there's no reason why you can't learn on 2.0mm. I'd go for about 55A on 2.0mm E6013, but it does depend on the make of electrode.
As others have said, the reason you're getting a lot of spatter and the bead is breaking up is more or less due to the way you're moving the electrode. Concentrate on keeping the arc short - ideally around 1mm, and moving smoothly and slow enough that the weld pool moves with the electrode. Depending on your helmet, you should be able to see the molten pool as a shimmering area that's a different texture and colour from the slag and unmelted metal.
For 2.0mm rods, a good technique for keeping the arc length correct is to angle it about 30 degrees from vertical, and lightly rest the flux coating on the surface, then drag the rod along - rather than trying to hover vertically over the surface. That frees up your brain a bit so you can concentrate on moving at the right speed to keep the weld continuous and properly melting the metal. For 2.5mm and above, dragging doesn't really work (you end up with a lot of slag inclusions and poor penetration), but for 1.6mm and 2.0mm, it's fine. Practice laying down some straight stringers on a bit of scrap 4mm steel so you can get the hang of moving smoothly and in a straight line. I reckon after you've gone through maybe 10 more rods, you'll get the hang of it and it'll just feel natural.

 

[rich the mechanic]

I have loads of 2mm and 1.6 and they are old at least from the early 90's if not before so would rather waste these, plus I prefer to start a bit above easy so I have somewhere to back track to if I need to and I only have a few bug rods. I did try to drag but it kept sticking but that i suppose could be the amps set to high. I was using the above pictured WR rods and the number codes mean nothing to me at the mo to me as I have only MIG or brazed up until now with a couple of goes at TIG.

 

[Jan]

Having sticked for many years I've found that full length rods will amplify the slightest of hand tremors into a wildly waving tip that only 'welds where it touches'. A lot of the time the tip will be waving around in the air way too far from the metal to permit the arc to maintain. Since all my joints - from the major ones right down to my fingers and toes - are seriously affected by several forms of osteo-arthrosis I have no choice but to cut most rods in half to keep the wibbly-wobbling down to a minimum.
It's hard to say for certain with your post weld pics, but the cleanliness of the metal prior to starting might not have been quite as good as it could be. I know that it's not always essential on stick welding, but it's still the best way to ensure that you melt pure metal without dragging rust and other contaminants into the mix.

 

[rich r]

You can also just hold or rest the rod lightly with your left hand to help steady it. I tend to do this with the 35cm and longer rods until they're down to about 15-20cm. Obviously take care not to set fire to your glove or burn yourself

 

[rich the mechanic]

Jan I have had another go since with the work in a better position that helped and cut the rod in half and the amps more like the recommended off the packet and it was loads more controlable just a bit disconnected where I was learning the burn speed. The metal was reasonably clean but not perefect as my angle grinder switch had just packed up.
Rich r I had though about holding the rod as Jan says it wobbles about but I had left my gloves in the shed and have given myself a shock with the mig and damp gloves and I wasn't sure how conductive the flux was if at all so opted to cut down and steady my hand instead.

This is the ground back and done again job.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Travel slower and keep the arc length short (better to rest/drag the rod along rather than have too long an arc gap).

 

[rich the mechanic]

Travel slower and keep the arc length short (better to rest/drag the rod along rather than have too long an arc gap).

If I try to rest or drag I'm sticking the rod so I'm in for more practice.

 

[Jan]

Sometimes a little bit of 'tremble' can keep the weld going when otherwise it might not. I once had a simple car battery powered welding torch that included a tiny solenoid in the grip. Every time the rod arced it would activate the solenoid to pull the rod a fraction of an inch away from the work piece. When the arc failed it would deactivate and the rod would momentarily dip back into the pool. It was a little disconcerting at first, but I soon got the hang of it and made some pretty decent welds with it. I wonder what happened to it? Maybe I threw it away when I bought my 100 amp Weldmate ... dunno
It may not be the best way of doing things, but I now find I can weld easier and better if I push the rod.

 

[rich r]

You're getting there - as Bill said, go slower and try to concentrate on keeping the arc shorter. If the rod's sticking, try a little more current still and also angle the electrode slightly. I found that when learning, having the rod at up to 40 degrees off vertical (so it's effectively holding the molten bit back against the direction of travel) it's far less likely to stick and the molten area is larger and easier to control. Then when you find your hand moves more naturally at the right speed you can bring the rod more vertical to get better penetration. For 2.0mm and smaller rods, dragging really is the way to go - angle about 45 degrees so the flux is resting on the surface, and the metal of the rod won't touch and so won't stick. Then gradually make it more vertical as you move along until you find the point where you can move without sticking, but the arc length is still under control.

You should find if go a little more slowly that you can see the weld puddle shimmering, distinct from the slag that's cooling behind it and the fresh metal ahead of it. Some people are better at this than others, and it also depends on your mask and rods to some extent. Then you can see how the molten area responds as you move the rod - if you go too quickly, the puddle won't follow the arc, if you go to slowly it'll grow and spread out (and maybe melt through the metal forming a hole). The trick is to move slowly enough that the metal melts evenly and the molten area moves with the rod, but not so slowly that it melts through.

Keep practising, one day it'll just suddenly feel natural and you won't have to think about it at all.

 

[rich the mechanic]

Sometimes a little bit of 'tremble' can keep the weld going when otherwise it might not. I once had a simple car battery powered welding torch that included a tiny solenoid in the grip.

but I now find I can weld easier and better if I push the rod.

I have one of those not tried it out yet and I had a go pushing and it seamed easier to me and I could see what I was doing better.

 

[brightspark]

Sometimes a little bit of 'tremble' can keep the weld going when otherwise it might not. I once had a simple car battery powered welding torch that included a tiny solenoid in the grip. Every time the rod arced it would activate the solenoid to pull the rod a fraction of an inch away from the work piece. When the arc failed it would deactivate and the rod would momentarily dip back into the pool. It was a little disconcerting at first, but I soon got the hang of it and made some pretty decent welds with it. I wonder what happened to it? Maybe I threw it away when I bought my 100 amp Weldmate ... dunno
It may not be the best way of doing things, but I now find I can weld easier and better if I push the rod.

a rawlplug welders mate they were a joke u could get them out of the exchange and mart for about 12 quid here http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/rawlplug-welders-mate.17057/

 

[Jan]

I doubt that I paid that much. IIRC it came from a car boot sale for a couple of quid. Still miss it as it was a handy tool to keep in the car for emergency use.