first time with mig

[gaz1]

got another mig thought id give that a go first with a sip migmate 130 gas

so heres my welds but it kinda splattered like it does with arc welder

i think im missing something so would like some advice please
on welding i had what i call splatter sparks got the nice blue colour but sometimes the wire shot in the nib so highered the speed of it

settings was 0.6 wire max due to thickness being 4mm 90% angle welds or joint to thickness weld wire speed 6/8 kept at 6 unless needed to adjust

 

[Wozzaaah]

It's difficult to tell from those out of focus pictures but those welds look pretty awful I'm afraid.
Looks like it's just the odd blob here and there, there doesn't seem to be anything resembling a consistent bead.
It also looks like you were lacking shielding gas.

You're trying to run before you can walk, you're way too inexperienced to tackle a project yet, whatever that is you've made.
Get yourself some steel of around 2mm thickness and practice running straight beads on it using various power settings so you can see how each setting affects the appearance and integrity of the weld. You should also be using 0.8mm wire on that box section, 0.6 is more suited to thin stuff like car bodywork.
What gas cylinders are you using, disposables?

 

[gaz1]

thanks for that soz about pics redone pics with them much closer viewing

im used to arc welding, not mig as this was my first time ever with a mig

pics shown with the thickness of the metal as well that was welding with the sip migmate 130

 

[Wozzaaah]

I stand by my comments!
Sorry to be blunt but they're appalling, there's no penetration and no fusion, it's just blobs sat on the surface.
You can see that on one of the joints the welds are rough and cratery, that's a sure sign of lack of gas so either your cylinder ran low or there was a breeze which blew it away.
Look at the last pic and you can see that the edges of the beads curl under rather than taper out, that's lack of power.
4mm is pushing it for a little machine like that, regardless of what the spec may say, but the main issue at the moment appears to be pilot error.
How far are you holding the contact tip from the workpiece?
As I also said, 0.6mm wire isn't suitable for steel that thick.

 

[gaz1]

yes it was a gas disposable canister i sorted decided to give it a go today since i had the second one delivered on friday as i have a clark 150te to try out as of yet

Ive never tried mig out before i thought id give it a go but first welding on a piece of steel first isnt my thing something im gonna have to get used to doing first, normally set arc to required amperage and away i go without burn through metal that most do

At the moment i cant afford the pieces of steel yet alone the big bottle from boc supplys if i get chance i will cadge some junk steel to practice upon from the scrappers when they come around collecting
and get the bottle as soon as i can afford to do

I will change up too the 8mm wire for steel that thick but would it work with the 1mm box section as well ?

i think i was around 1cm away from the work piece could have been less or more from time too time

after all said and done and thats why ive asked and posted pics up as well for help as i wasnt too sure about it thoe i have learnt a few things thoe

what it looks like without gas or not enough gas
as unsure of the distance tried my best for a first time attempt

 

[cumbriasteve]

Hi Gaz

Your venture into the world of MIG welding is an exact replica of my own, after many years of arc welding which I was so used to I could do with my eyes shut, I decided I needed to modernise.

I bought a SIP 150, plugged it in...full of confidence and the results were awful, it nearly made me give in but I joined this forum and soon realised where I had the problem, or at least most of them..it was the SIP itself.

They can be made to work fairly well but require some modifications, luckily I was in a position where I could dump the machine and purchase something better...mig welding then became a lot easier and arc a thing of the past.

Everything wozzaaah has mentioned is of course correct and if you follow his advice you will be going in the right direction.

As suggested.. some scrap steel, some more runs and pictures up for advise.

The main thing is don't get downhearted about it, I do so many projects now that would have been a nightmare if I only had arc.

Regarding gas, try your local gas agents...even the calor gas one's, many now sell welding gases at a much better rate than BOC, I get mine locally and a large bottle lasts nearly a year..works out at just over £1 a week for rent and a refill.

 

[Sean]

some of that welding may be the start stop stutter of the SIP but they look like youve got the power too low and the torch too far from the job.
Practice torch angles and travel - snip the end of the wire before the start of each weld so you have a couple of mm stick out with fresh wire
see the SIP mega thread about how to make that machine less troublesome - but suspect getting the clarke out will be your option

 

[cracker666]

Gaz, Dont give up, read up.

Yes The SIP is built to a low price when compared to other Migs on the market, but with a little cash and time can be made better.

Loads of people on here help newbies like you and me, for a long time I was only going to use the fluxed wire, But I learnt the error of my ways.
Its a learning curve.

I found it hard to decide if my mig needed modding or if it was just me wanting to mod it.
But I seen and heard the difference.
Re renting gas, I started out the hobbygas route, but I will be going the BOC (VZI Deal) route as it is a lot cheaper for me.

One thing I would recommend is a book called "Farm Workshop Welding Book" got mine from ebay under £10.00 delivered.

 

[gaz1]

im not giving up but to be honest im finding the cost of things a little too pricey just to tinker with or as a hobby/hobbiest

cost of mig welder 200.00 +
cost of extra parts needed for big bottle gas 60.00 weldequip part (understand its safety)
then cost of gas bottle 40.00 + filling boc ( vzi deal )
then + 2 sorts of wire or 3

kinda getting a bit expensive but im gonna finish off what im doing in the end so not gonna give it up just yet lol
just need to save up a little more than i was expecting

arc 10.00 + welding rods 18.00 i got the better ones to use much easier to strike a spark from them

but i did find the sip had the continues push on the wire only when it burnt back due to my settings been too low on wire feed had enough push force on the wire so kinda didnt think it was that problem

just knew i was missing something so though id ask as not so sure

 

[Wozzaaah]

0.8mm wire will do pretty much everything so I'd suggest you get a roll once that 0.6 has run out and see how you get on with it. I reckon you'll find it ok and won't need to keep swapping sizes.
Don't forget to swap the feed roller around if it has 2 grooves and also change the contact tip to the correct size.

What is it you're making by the way?

 

[steveo3002]

have a practice on some spare bits that you can both sides...you want the other side to be melted together and not a gap ..yours will just be sitting on top

id try it on a higher setting and turn down if blowing lots of holes...make sure its earthed nice too

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

I would have it flat out on there. and it does look like a lack of gas.

 

[Cobbler]

Hi Gas, if the gas costs are a problem, have you got any mates in the pub trade, you may be able to purloin a co2 bottle for a few drinks. Not as good as argon mix, but a lot cheaper, just need a regulator then. I think most of us have used it at some time as it was all that was available at a reasonable price. Make sure it's pure co2 though, as the 'smooth' head beers use co2/nitrogen mix I think it is & it doesn't work. As the others said 'don't give up' all of a sudden it will all work out & you will think why couldn't I do that before

Good luck

Cobbler

 

[gaz1]

ok then had another go as got a sip 150 turbo gas/less as had bottle and the regs with it

first of all not connected bottle yet as its at 50 bar mark and as had some gasless wire with it thought why not give it ago

first did some test welds on 3mm steel grinded off clean

i started at the edge twice and as you can see i burnt holes into the metal, weld through theres none except a heat pool on the back of the welds

i have thoe managed to weld my spade back up as snapped between spade head and handle ive stood on it and basically tried to snap the weld

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

Thats better!! not that bad for gasless, You can still run the bottle until it;s ompletely empty.

 

[gaz1]

this is the back image on that piece of steel as you can see its flat on the underside with no pool like with the wire and gas so im kinda unsure if got it right but i think ive got it wrong as theres no cut through on the gasless side on pics on tutorial
i presume i should have a raised or pool of weld on underside even with gasless wire ?

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

You won't get as much heat going into the weld pool as with gas on the same settings as far as i know as there is less surface area with the wire but it's very hard to get vizible penetration unless you're on a joint with a small root gap, Try usind a 1mm cutting disc in a grinder to just do some small slits any length long 2-3-4"? and fill them back up again, you should see some penetration.

 

[keith19]

As lmb says, don't expect to see much penetration through 3mm when just running beads along the top with something like 0.8 to 1.0mm wire; the metal sucks the heat out of the weld well before it penetrates through.

So you are doing okay, you are just looking for something that won't happen.
As said, when you are joining metal on the flat using a butt joint you will - should - expect to see penetration to the other side, providing your metal thickness suits the thickness of the wire.

 

[gaz1]

well here is so more goes with the gasless wire using a sip 150 gas/gasless unit

its box section that i am welding up to create a frame

25mm x 25mm x 1mm

now i am used to the arc welder with blow throughs and learnt how to fill them up using so
for me the gasless system is similar to it get blow throughs lower your amps and fill in

pics left as welded thoe some cleaned off with wire brush and some grinded down flat as well

 

[gaz1]

ive been some what busy cleaning welding table off so havent posted in a while ive read tat a light coat of oil stops it rusting what oil do you use to coat welding table top when cleaned off ?

so heres some welds done with 0.8mm flux wire and sip 150 welder and i havent cleaned them off and i am getting alot better with the mig welding as got used to settings now

its a seat frame but not holding heavy weight ive done a test weld first it got penetration between a corner joint and covered the hidden side inside the steel when i broke the test piece up so continued from there as weld did not break it snapped on steal after wiggerling it to snap the end off

main frame
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2nt8wgvdyo4hmtb/IMG00145-20130724-1909.jpg

leg strut
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6ykd6obk9k7ytd/IMG00144-20130724-1909.jpg