Gasless Welding Tips Please!!

[weldernewbie]

Dear all,

I've just bought a Clarke 105EN to weld up some key MOT failure points on my family LR Discovery. MOT's on Tuesday and I'm starting to get worried as we're going on a camping holiday on the 1st August all the way to Cornwall! So never having MIG welded before, just played with an arc welder laying beads, I've now jumped into the deep end and am trying to patch up the wheel arch near a seat belt mounting point, see pictures:

Happy to take criticism on how I patched it up as well, I'm assuming it could have been a many tabbed and folded single piece. What I struggled with most was just doing a simple lap weld. I practiced on scrap first, set lowest amps on the welder at about no. 3 speed but although I could manage a relatively uniform bead with penetration it wasn't thick enough to hold a lapped joint. Then I cranked up the power to no. 2 and the other switch stayed on min. and turned the speed up to 4. Bead wise it was much thicker and of course I had to move quickly to avoid blowing the metal but when I turned to trying lapped joints at this power/speed it was still a struggle.

I'm aiming for the base plate, just above the root of the join with the patch metal and find that I have to move pretty quick but even then the edge of the repair plate is frazzling and moving away from the bead. But if I turn it down I get back to skinny beads again. I got sick of messing about so just went for it but ended up with bird poo beads and a couple of big blown holes. It's structurally sound and I can fill the gaps with teeny tiny bits of metal (omg wot a ******'s muddle ) but I wanted any advice/tips if possible:


1. Am I aiming the arc at the right place, also I'm using a pushing forearm stroke?

2. Should I be jacking the speed up to 6 or something and really zip along to avoid blowing holes or will that compromise penetration?

3. I've got to patch underneath that repair as well God help me; any tips for overhead gassless MIG? I'm thinking, although it will take forever, I'll just weld 1cm at a time alternating different ends to reduce the chance of overheating the metal and blowing holes. That's assuming I can even do 1cm

I know the first bit of advice will be to get it converted to gas but I don't have time to mess about with bottles and in the long term I want to really get the hang of the gasless, so all you gasless experts;a cry for help.....tell me any good tips you have

Thanks,

Sunny

 

[pedrobedro]

Personally I would have used a bit thicker plate like 16g as it is easier to weld and I would have filled all the arch with one plate and put the other on top of it inside. No need to go underneath with anything but the paint brush then. Weld to the good metal next to your plate and let the edge of the weld catch the edge of the plate, welding forwards is the way I usually go but I use gas so you will be able to go sideways etc with no worries about gas cover as long as your angle is consistent.

 

[weldernewbie]

Personally I would have used a bit thicker plate like 16g as it is easier to weld and I would have filled all the arch with one plate and put the other on top of it inside. No need to go underneath with anything but the paint brush then. Weld to the good metal next to your plate and let the edge of the weld catch the edge of the plate, welding forwards is the way I usually go but I use gas so you will be able to go sideways etc with no worries about gas cover as long as your angle is consistent.

Duh, seems so simple when you put it like that in regard to doing the wheel arch first, oh well you live and learn. I've got the other side to do so next time I'll think more carefully about just welding from the inside of the car.

Thinking about it maybe I'm coming in at too acute an angle so even though I'm welding the base plate it's too close to the leading edge of the patch hence the frazzling? I have achieved a normalish looking bead that doesn't climb up the patch piece whilst being thick enough to hold it. Just not often and not sure what I did differently. Oh if only it was the luxury of repairing a rusty classic locked up in a garage rather than a functioning family car.....

Any tips on overhead welding and am I the only novice forum member using gasless?

 

[fingers99]

Overhead welding is horrible!

Wear a cap, leather apron, long gauntlets, cover your neck if you can. Don't wear synthetics. Usually it helps to increase the wire speed.

You'll always, always, get better results with gas (unless in a gale), but that doesn't look at all bad for gasless.

 

[NTwoO]

Molten metal is lethal when welding overhead! Leather, leather and more leather. (and no, whips and chains don't excite me...)

 

[malcolm]

Your work looks not terrible. Gasless does tend to be hotter than welding with gas, but it's not so bad that you have to rush. Check the penetration on the reverse side to see if you have enough. I'd slow down a bit.

It's easiest to practice on a bench using the same thickness steel to get the power (voltage) and wire speed settings right. For overhead welding you might find the wire speed can be increased a little from the practice to reduce burn back and the drops of weld that can form.

 

[pedrobedro]

Duh, seems so simple when you put it like that in regard to doing the wheel arch first

I've been doing stuff like this for nearly 40 years now and am still picking up easy ways round stuff. You're doing alright. I've seen a lot worse after garage welders have had a go and passed their own work. Get some seam sealer round the underneath and paint it well and it will be invisible mending, throw some road dust on it while it's still wet and it will be original manufacturers spec

 

[weldernewbie]

Cheers all for the responses, I feel more encouraged and ready for round 2 tomorrow....assuming it's not thunderstorming as I have to do repairs in my shared drive

I'll take a piccie of the underneath and post the final process for anyone following this. It's difficult to explain but I think I'll have to do some welding underneath, if I'd taken more time to think about it it could have been avoided but that's the problem with repairs on a "working" car in daily use.

Thanks again and I'll be back with more after the weekend...and the MOT result.

 

[weldernewbie]

To anyone following this thread;

Needless to say with an aging LR Discovery a couple of patches turned into 5 and I began to stop taking pictures as I was running out of time! I'll post some photos when I have the time for any newbies like me who may be encouraged to take the drastic step of hammering rusty spots safe in the knowledge that if I can patch weld repairs anyone can!

My retired ship welder friend had a go with the gasless as he'd never used one before. He agreed with the general view they're messier, more difficult to see weld etc. but obviously with his experience still managed decent welds without blowing, inclusions etc. However, he did suggest a more fluid approach to welding with it that definitely helped me. He suggested flicking the arc over to the repair patch occasionally just to take the heat off of the thinner car metal and also coming back on the weld, not just going forward in a linear manner all the time. You won't get the stacked pennies weld of beauty but I found it made a much stronger weld for me and reduced the risk of blowing holes. Also I wasn't bothered about how it looked as I didn't mind grinding down any really lumpy bits + most of the patches were behind plastic trim or underneath the car.

Oh and he also said the sheet metal I used to patch repair, guage 20 (.9mm I think) was too thin and made it unnecessarily difficult. He would have used 16 (about 1.2/5 I think). So supporting what you said Pedro.

The Discovery flew through the MOT with no advisories and the MOT advisor thought it all looked good so despite the baptism of fire and pressured time constraints I'm very happy with my first foray into auto repair gassless migging :-)

I'll do the driver's side early next year, + the rear boot's looking skaggy. Will update when I can.

Thanks all again for advice.

Sunny

 

[weldernewbie]

Pictures as promised:



This picture shows what underneath the arch repair looked like, the rusty bits are the new patches, I had to wait a week to get back under the car.



My first attempt at overhead welding, messy, very spattery and a few heroic moments of allowing my flesh to cook in order to finish a pass....oooh what a man!



Base of door pillar, other side under the car was rusted through but was more straight forward in terms of patching.



Repair patch cut and clamped in place ready to weld



Finished weld, again, bumpy as hell but by the time I ground it down, filled and sprayed it etc. it was fine.



Forgot to take piccie of final topcoat but this gives you idea of how it looked, I was more than happy with it, all good practice for when I do a real restoration in a few years time.