Hydrovane problems

[Hobbit590]

Hiya,
Sorry if this is the wrong place for this but it seems to fit in.

I've just got hold of what I'm told is a hydrovane 15 on a 50L tank, giving 5.2 CFM. it all seems to work as it should apart from a slight leak somewhere which loses about three-quarters of the tank overnight - no great problem, but it would be nice to sort it out sometime.

My more immediate problem is that the thermal overload trippy thing in the starter box is cutting things out and the motor is getting, well, warm, ok, hot. About the same temperature as the air end. I'm assuming I have a dying motor for some reason, possibly linked to the fact I have two capacitors attached to it, one attached by zip-ties. One of the joys of second hand is you never know what has gone before.
I have no problem in replacing the motor once I know what's needed which is where I come across another little snag - the seller says its a 1.5 kw motor, 1440 rpm, but from what I've been reading it should be either a 1.1kw or a 2.2 kw. There is no label on the motor that I can find, the only numbers I have are on the starter box and that has 455199M as a serial. I believe the overload is 6A to 10A

Another thing I'd like to do is increase the CFM as I'm trying to run an airmask (unknown CFM) and a LVLP spraygun (4.2 CFM @22psi) and it's not quite up to it, nearly but no coco-nut, and from what I've read on here if you replace a 1.1 motor with a 2.2 you double the output by doubling the RPM. Is there a problem doing this or is a standard thing and they are capable of running happily at double speed?

I've seen http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TEC-Singl...hash=item19e6a55a6f:m:mruoK7bl_UM6lkkwThvuoyg on ebay and that the motors come in two different types and speeds : 2 Pole giving 3000rpm or 4 Pole giving 1500rpm.
Is there a reason I couldn't use a 1.1 kw 3000 RPM version to increase output? Or would the work be too much and I'd have to go for a higher power motor to compensate?

Many thanks in advance for guidance,
Hobbit590.

 

[WorkshopChris]

Hi and welcome,
Personally i wouldn't advise what you are suggesting, if it was that easy Hydrovane would be doing that at the factory.
Just a question you say it's getting hot and has 2 capacitors cable tied to it.
Are you sure it is single phase and not a 3 phase motor someone has attempted to run on a capacitor. If it were to run in that situation i would expect it to get hot.
Have you opened the terminal lid and had a look.

 

[wristpin]

Two capacitors - one start and one run?

 

[Hobbit590]

Hiya,
Cheers for the replies, take a few pix so people can see what's what in there. From the answers and what I've seen and read on the wonderweb I'm starting to think this may not be the original motor!

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/6/6/1/6/4/webimg/898993020_o.jpg
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/6/6/1/6/4/webimg/898993009_o.jpg
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/6/6/1/6/4/webimg/898993003_o.jpg
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/6/6/1/6/4/webimg/898992994_o.jpg
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/6/6/1/6/4/webimg/898992984_o.jpg


Wristpin: That seems to be just what it is, I found the little piece of paper in the back of the terminal box lid and the caps connect up to the areas it says, the black cable at the top is one cap, terminals 4-5 bus and terminal 3, and the other cap is the white cable at the side going to the same 4-5 bus and terminal 6.

WorkshopChris: I'm bumbling along blindly at the moment, learning more as I go - lots, lots more subjects than I thought I would need, trike building seems to also involve fixing the tools that you got in to do the job!
Yes, it gets hot, I haven't stuck my thermometer on it to check but its as hot as the lantern end, and that's uncomfortable to keep a hand on. I've stuck a cheapNcheerful clipon fan blowing over the motor and this has increased the time it can run before it trips out.



Most of my info has come from forums like this, especially Gary900r and his chat with Steelcityuk in 2010

The 2.2kw have twice the air output(the motor runs at twice the speed) but the noise level is the same. A 1.1kw will run off a 13A plug bug the 2.2kw requires a 20A electrical supply(assuming we are talking about single phase(240v) versions).

Sadly, no mention of 2 or 4 poles, just that the RPM is double.

At least now I know that I have a cap start/cap run motor, but none the wiser as to it's power or RPM.
I'm guessing that everything is an "industry standard", shaft/keyway sizes, face plates, feet, and two standard speeds - 1500 and 3000, so if I can work out what I have I should be able to replace it, if not upgrade it.
How do I find out what it is if there's no info? It runs happily from a 13a plug and socket so it's a good guess it isn't 2.2kw, and by the same lack of fuse popping it would infer that it's not 1.5kw either (assuming 2.2 needs 20 amp, 1.1 should want half that -10A so theory says 1.5kw should want 15A, meaning popped fuses in the plug).
OK, I seem to have just convinced myself it's 1.1, so how do I find out RPM and number of poles?
And what difference would the number of poles make?
Anyone able to enlighten me more?
Cheers, Colin.

 

[WorkshopChris]

The good news is yes that is a single phase cap start cap rum motor.
If 1.1kw should be a 90 frame see attached PDF for dimensions. (1500rpm or 80 3000rpm)
http://www.rotor.co.uk/downloads/siemens_motors.pdf

Do you have a multi meter with a capacitance test setting.
If so see if the run cap is within limits. the 2 or 4 pole will normally have a different capacitance may help identify what you have.
Although motors will vary slightly between manufactures most these days are normally standard.

 

[carbon]

It looks like the capacitor that is cable tied on has has just come loose from its mounting on the top of the junction box and the previous owner just cable tied it on rather that re fixing it in the original location.
If the capacitance of the run capacitor is lower than it should be then it may account for the motor running hot. The capacitors are usually marked with the value and the % tolerance.

 

[Gary900r]

It look like an original motor. At that overload range it will be a 1.1kw 1440rpm motor which would be consistant with a 50l receiver. The pump unit would have been a badged as a 5. It is however the same as the one badged as a 15. To increase the cfm output get a 2.2kw 2pole 2880rpm motor and a larger overload. It will need a 20A supply

 

[Hobbit590]

Hi all,
Thanks for the info and reassurance, I'm now awaiting delivery of a replacement motor and control box, should be here on Friday if all goes to plan.

Haven't got a capacitance meter, I have a megger somewhere from when I was a domestic sparks, but not seen that for years, and a multi-meter, ac and dc voltage, resistance and amps only, so I have no chance of testing caps and to be honest no time to buy a meter and check things out.
The Other Half wants her spraygun/mask up and running, and after the weekends' journey into mechanical frustration (trike's off the road for 3 to 4 weeks, parts from USA, DOH) it seems the quickest and easiest route toward a quiet life. May get a chance to look at it more if I ever find myself with idle time on my hands - like that's ever going to happen, damn list just gets longer, and longer.....

Many thanks for the assists, will be back on here again no doubt to share my problems.
Cheers, Hobbit.

 

[William Small]

Hi Hobbit 590
I have a Hydrovane 15 did you get a service manual with yours and if so can you tell me where you got it
Cheers Willie