i am new here and new to welding...

[Landy101fc]

I have a few questions though.
A 4mm E1877 electrode in a old school arc welder, setting 140A..
how much amps will it draw at the socket?
It is a old Hellas machine.
it can be set up for three phase, i might need to look up the cost or run a generator when i need the dinasaur.

 

[Kent]

140 amps is a little cold for 4mm rods (but yes they will light up and burn) these usually run 120-170 anyhow ( I start at around 150 initially till I know better) and lets put it this way if you do try it 13amp plug fuses will become more than a little tiresome.
The draw I don't know on such an old machine I am guessing a fair bit more than that 13amp plug fuse so a 16amp hook up at least seems appropriate (though I am certainly no electrician and over fusing can be dangerous)

 

[Landy101fc]

I have used it on 70a on a regular socket without issues, on 140A i think the cable in the wall melted through.
When my workshop is build and electrics put in i have a request for 40A breakers for the welder and lathe.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I have used it on 70a on a regular socket without issues, on 140A i think the cable in the wall melted through.
When my workshop is build and electrics put in i have a request for 40A breakers for the welder and lathe.

Amps x Volts = Watts
140 x 50 (typical for an air cooled welder) = 7000 Watts
So 7KW.
You need to upgrade the wiring, not the breakers, the breakers are there to protect the wiring. Changing your breakers to a larger size when your current wiring is melting is asking for an electrical fire!

 

[PTvor]

That sounds strange. If you are running it from a properly fused 13A plug, you should just blow the fuse before there's any question of damaging the wiring. If you are using a 13A plug with a piece of bolt or some other bodge in place of the 13A cartridge fuse, you are asking for trouble.

Having a three phase supply installed in domestic premises is usually very expensive.

I suppose the thing to do, if you are building a workshop and having electrics installed is to have a 32A industrial socket fitted for the welder and of course a consumer unit in the workshop and a properly rated cable to the workshop from the consumer unit. The electrician should know exactly what needs to be fitted.

Another option, in all this spending is to get a modern inverter welder for a couple of hundred and have less problems feeding it.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I doubt if anybody can really say what it will draw. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it needs at least 16a though, perhaps a bit more.

If you're going to have to spend money getting an electrical supply for this I'd certainly be researching an inverter welder, £200 buys you a reasonable one that can give 160a and should more or less be able to run off a 13a fuse.

 

[Landy101fc]

Max draw of amps, 38A ... Data from the same welder.
that is serious....
My wish list has a tig and arc welder, i need a 3 phase converter for my bench grinder though.

 

[Kent]

Max draw of amps, 38A ... Data from the same welder.
that is serious....
My wish list has a tig and arc welder, i need a 3 phase converter for my bench grinder though.

Get another bench grinder that works on single phase it will be cheaper. Running a £300 class modern MMA and lift TIG will also be better as you wil be on 16amp plug in and could go to 120 maybe 140 with std 13amp plug. BTW 140 amps is still on the cold side for most 4mm rods I should step that down to a 3.2 personally.

 

[Bill Edwards]

In that case I have to say that in your boots I'd really be looking to spend £196 on something like this http://www.weldequip.com/parweld-xti160.htm and for another £79 it'll do TIG work as well.

I say that, you don't say what sort of stick welding you're doing (E1877 rods? I'm not sure what they are, have you got the numbers right?) or what sort of TIG work you have in mind, but if it's for little jobs and to scratch an itch an inverter with lift TIG would do nicely.

 

[PTvor]

Max draw of amps, 38A ... Data from the same welder.
that is serious....
My wish list has a tig and arc welder, i need a 3 phase converter for my bench grinder though.

A few people on here have 180A Oxfords which are probably about the same in terms of current draw as your welder. I don't think they've bothered with 63A supplies, but look up the threads.

As I understand it, a three phase converter is quite a pricey item and buying a new or second hand grinder which will work on single phase is worth investigating.

As Kent says, you can get 200A MMA inverters with a good warranty for £300, which will burn 4mm rods easily.

http://www.weldequip.com/jasic-proarc-200.htm

I suppose they would run off a 16A supply but would be happier, full chat, on a 32A supply.

If you are having this installed and are obviously shelling out, it's worth looking into the extra cost of having the heaviest supply possible put in.

 

[Bill Edwards]

A few people on here have 180A Oxfords which are probably about the same in terms of current draw as your welder. I don't think they've bothered with 63A supplies, but look up the threads.

I use such a machine, oil cooled 180a and have melted the switch on the 32a socket that runs it!


Massive current draw, and I often wonder how much money would be saved on the electric bill with an inverter welder using half the power.

 

[PTvor]

It seems to me that the O/P is set to spend quite a lot of money on setting up a workshop and he'd do well to drop the assumption that he's got to use his Hellas welder and the three phase grinder, and start with a clean sheet of paper.

A part of it is asking exactly what he wants to do, how the existing kit fits in against the price of replacement and of course the question of the marginal extra cost of putting in an electricity supply well in excess of current requirements, considering the cost and disruption of upgrading it in the future.

 

[Kent]

Be careful not to read too much into power savings on transformer v inverter. Yes inverters are more efficient but turning a transformer off when your not welding makes a big difference as most of the inverters efficiency is in the on but not actually welding stage.

 

[Landy101fc]

I have a bench grinder on 220, a same set up as polishing machine, i planned the 3 phase as brush machine. I have a sealey mighty mig for flux core wire (0.8) and the Hellas as stick welder. I have a lathe from 1942 and a cheap pillar drill. I am setting up a workshop to weld on chassis parts and restore alternators and generators. The back yard next to the shed will get a black smith set up and a metal casting facility. yes, my wife and me are land rover owners. The workshop is a must my birthday money goes in a tig / stick welder fund. Right now i am doing my best with what i got.

 

[Landy101fc]

The old Hellas will be retired when i have the tig and electrode set up. It was given to me as part payment, same as my pillar drill and wobble stone bench grinder. The lathe came from a ww2 collector and stood oiled in the living room. I plan to use it, get a milling machine next to it and revive my 1944 pillar metal cutter. I love old tools.

 

[Landy101fc]

Same as this oil filled unit. I got after my dad in law passed away. No idea if it works but it weighs a ton.

 

[Kent]

The old Hellas will be retired when i have the tig and electrode set up. It was given to me as part payment, same as my pillar drill and wobble stone bench grinder. The lathe came from a ww2 collector and stood oiled in the living room. I plan to use it, get a milling machine next to it and revive my 1944 pillar metal cutter. I love old tools.

Wow up there if you have a bench grinder not running true it can get seriously dangerous in a nano second Saw a fella get a fortnight or so in the hospital working on a wobbly one (bearings pooped) wheel broke hit him in the chest breaking the "sternum" is it? In some respects he was lucky it didn't get him in the head

 

[Landy101fc]

The bearings are good, they are ****ty quality stones. Replacing them is on my to do list. Grinding safety is a sturdy leather coat and facemask. I look like a idiot, but i live to tell the tale.

 

[Kent]

Mate, that stone breaks and no leather coat and facemask will protect you much. Please think on as half a wheel can come at you much harder than it can be thrown and your only going to be a metre away at best. Even an undressed stone can create a break and it don't care what is in its path one little bit

 

[Landy101fc]

You are correct, only my safety is from the 1950's. The new stones should arrive next week. Some call it a wonder i got all my fingers. still safety is accepting all risks and assess them.