Keil Key Cutter

[Dieselman 63]

Hello.

Today I was out and saw this in a sort of junkshop-cum-bookshop. They didn't know what it was, but being as sad as I am, I did. I felt sorry for the little thing all smothered in green and silver paint, a far cry from the polished steel, brass and gloss black it should be, so I made an impulse decision and bought it.

Initial restoration has not been easy. All threaded parts are heavily clogged with grease and dirt and there are cobwebs and bits of grass all over the place. It's not been very loved, and the person who painted it just painted straight over the rust, dirt and everything else. I've managed to get some of it apart, but not all. It's very tough work as a lot of the parts are quite heavily corroded and caked in paint, which takes time to remove and then for oil to infiltrate the thread.

Does anyone know what sort of nut this is? It's a pain to get off, and I've stopped as I feel it might crack.

Cheers

 

[cumbriasteve]

Nice project.

Unless the castle part is a reduced diameter locking section,then it would appear to be designed for a split pin to be inserted once in place, did it have one? if not there may be a chance the remains are still through the stud and could be dragging on the nut as you try to remove, if that is the case then you could tighten the nut back down and try to locate it, it may not be easy to see and will have blended into the thread.

Other than that it's brute force or a nut splitter.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Split crown self locking Nut.
The splits on the top are a bit smaller than the thread, so as it is round on it locks tight.
A Bit of local heat will help free it.

They did a hand cranked one as well as a electric powered versions.

Back in the early 1980's there was an old fashion key shop in my home town. Run by an old Polish man. It was a joy to watch him.

 

[cumbriasteve]

Split crown self locking Nut.
The splits on the top are a bit smaller than the thread, so as it is round on it locks tight.
.

That was my initial guess, it appears to be unscrewed beyond that part though, hence why I suspected a split pin.

Probably as you state though and if there is no pin in there heat is your friend.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

@cumbriasteve
Morning.
I was looking at it, as if it was being dismantled, OP did say it was tight. Plus The slots look to small to be a "castle nut" for a split pin.

Still a nice bit of kit.

 

[cumbriasteve]

@cumbriasteve
Morning.
I was looking at it, as if it was being dismantled, OP did say it was tight. Plus The slots look to small to be a "castle nut" for a split pin.

Still a nice bit of kit.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

@Dieselkid 63
The oil caps are designed to take a thick oil, so it "oozes" rather than runs.
We have a Key cutter at work to replace Fire Alarm keys. I asked our stock man and the small user manual just state a "Heavy Gear oil"

 

[Dieselman 63]

@Dieselkid 63
The oil caps are designed to take a thick oil, so it "oozes" rather than runs.
We have a Key cutter at work to replace Fire Alarm keys. I asked our stock man and the small user manual just state a "Heavy Gear oil"

Thanks, that's cool to know. At present many parts are heavily rusted and getting to them is proving difficult. Maybe I can have a go with the dremel and more oil tomorrow.

 

[Ton-up]

Does anyone know what sort of nut this is? It's a pain to get off, and I've stopped as I feel it might crack.

Cheers

From the pic, it looks like the solid part of the nut has reached the end of the shaft. Did you look at the end of the shaft? has it been damaged at all? Clean the thread behind the nut and wind the nut back on with plenty of lube. File a small chamfer on and try again.
Lovely little machine, cracking project!!

 

[Dieselman 63]

A bit of a breakthrough. I couldn't sleep so I went to see if I could free anything up, and I did! I got the top slider moving freely on the copy-lathe wheel bit. The bottom one moves but is seized in one place. The grease coming off this thing is really nasty, black stuff that almost feels like clay. It's also a pain to get off my hands, even swarfega struggles.

The thing that says 'Press Hard' is what engages the worm drive to the lathe bit - it's the slider on that that I freed just before, and there's another one obscured underneath it that has a bit of seizure. I've broken the project down into two parts: the lathe, and the vices at the front. At present I am focusing on the lathe bit.

I've seen these machines described as a work of art before and it is true, for a 1920s machine they are excellently made.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

@Dieselkid 63

Can you seal it in a bag or container with degreaser or thinners in it and leave in a warm place?

That way it will be is a rich atmosphere and may help.

Did that on a old singer sewing machine, all the old grease and sh1t fell off.

 

[Dieselman 63]

I can indeed. It's summer here and the sun is beating down on us every day. I'll give it a go, thanks for the tip!

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

I can indeed. It's summer here and the sun is beating down on us every day. I'll give it a go, thanks for the tip!

With remarks like that you are not making friends here.

 

[Paul.]

Those split crown nuts are a pain, we used to come across them on old packaging and printing machinery, the crown locking part damages the threads which then means removal sometimes is impossible without chewing up the nut and male thread, I would split it, either with a nut splitter, or a thin cutting disk and finish it with a chisel to open it up, then fit either a castellated nut and split cotter pin, or a nylock, nice little project though, resist the temptation paint it just clean it and make it work, probably worth a few quid to a collector.

 

[Dieselman 63]

Got the nut off! You're right when you say they're a pain. Used my dremel with a cut off disc just so much to allow it some give; the nut expanded 2mm and screwed off. Now to find a replacement! I'll use Nylock as these castle nuts are awful for maintenance.

The slides are de-rusted and cleaned, and are now allowing free movement again. This is a big milestone as I was worried they might be fully seized. It's very rewarding bringing something back from the brink like this. Every step is a challenge, and it's testing my restoration skills to the max. Pics to follow once I've done a bit more.

 

[Dieselman 63]

Well Christmas has got the better of me for pics, but not progress. The vice bit at the front was on a rod which I had to cut out - it was just far too rusted to slide through, and has some really heavy pitting on it. I opened up the casting at one end to allow me access to the end of the rod, both now and for access later when it comes to maintenance. I tried to keep it similar in style; I very rarely modify castings but in this case I feel it was a necessary improvement.

There are still parts confusing me and parts rusted on, so tonnes of work to go, but as you can imagine freeing up parts and getting things going again is excellent for morale!

 

[Dieselman 63]

*Rust Update* - the stuff is a pain and ruins machinery if you don't keep things lubricated! Seriously, what a nightmare I was faced with.

The saving grace was that the carriage did at least rock back and forth, but was seized to the rod. To try and free it, I needed to cut into the casting in order to give a few sharp taps from each end.

Got some bi-metal hacksaw blades for Christmas (hey, at least it was something I wanted and needed!) and they just ate through the cast like nobody's business. I tidied the opening up with a grinding stone on the Dremel. I was now ready to start trying to free the carriage. Initial efforts failed however, and not wanting to crack or chip the cast, I cut through the rods either side, and left the carriage in a vinegar bath for 24hrs, then tapped the rod out.

The clean stuff is what was hiding in the cast. The pitting is really bad - I'll have to completely replace this rod. In other news, the lathe sliders are working nicely, but I might replace the rod as it's a bit gnarly too.

So that's where I'm up to. The machine looks like this currently - still lots of paint stripping to do. I don't think my cut-out is noticeable at all and once painted should be even more-so hidden.

Thanks for looking, and Merry Christmas!

 

[RichardM]

Coming along well. Leave it to soak in a bucket full of deisel, works well as a penetrating oil.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

@Dieselkid 63
Try this to soak it in.
75% Diesel
15% old engine oil.
10% paffine.
Keep it warm, easy down there.
Leave it.
It will loosen almost anything.

 

[Dieselman 63]

Thanks for the tips but I have none of the above only kero and white vinegar, plus the wire wheel on my bench grinder for cleaning equipment.

I had to cut out the last piece of rod at the front, it was just too corroded. It's all imperial and needs new 1/8 and 1/2 inch steel rod, so I'm going to the engineers today to see if they're open. The hex nuts are also imperial and seized in places, so I used a trick I learned on here and doubled up the hacksaw blades and cut a flat bladed slot, then had a crack with the impact driver. It came right out!