Lathe head stock oil

[Spark plug]

I need to change the oil in the DSG’s headstock firstly because I don’t know when it was last changed and secondly as it doesn’t like the cold.

When the weather turns colder the motor hasn’t got enough torque to start in star, it just sits stalled until the starter switches to delta then starts up with a big current surge. This not being good for the lathe and Likely to get me in trouble with the neighbours for making their lights flicker while they are trying to watch Eastenders.

Because the lathe has been fine all summer, since last winter I’m blaming whatever oil is in there. Normally I wouldn’t be too fussy with oil and use any modern substitute that is suitable, but in this case I think I may have to be a little more selective.

The manual specifies Shell Vitrea 27 from what I’ve found the closest available equivalent is Mobil DTE oil light but it’s very expensive. There’s a company on eBay called Westway lubricants selling an “equivalent” to Vitrea 27 but I’m a little dubious to what’s in the bottle.

Or do I just go with a quality hydraulic 32 and hope for the best?

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Agroshield]

Left field suggestion: just as diesel engines in very cold climates have a block and sometimes sump heaters, could something similar be used to save annual oil changes?

https://www.preheat.co.uk/product-type/oil-sump-gearbox-heaters/

 

[Bladevane]

I have used DTE Light in my Colchester Chipmaster headstock for years. I'm not familiar with your lathe so cannot make a recommendation. The Chipmaster has hollow taper roller bearings.

 

[Spark plug]

Left field suggestion: just as diesel engines in very cold climates have a block and sometimes sump heaters, could something similar be used to save annual oil changes?

https://www.preheat.co.uk/product-type/oil-sump-gearbox-heaters/

I have considered this if I can’t solve the problem by changing the oil, but it’s a route ide rather not go down.

 

[pressbrake1]

My small dsg , which is the same model as yours behaves exactly the same when it’s cold though it will start, I’m running three phase so more torque
It also runs warmer than I’d like
Further investigation needed

 

[Spark plug]

My small dsg , which is the same model as yours behaves exactly the same when it’s cold though it will start, I’m running three phase so more torque
It also runs warmer than I’d like
Further investigation needed

It’s running from the mains so no issues there, it seems to turn free enough when I turn the drive belt by hand.

I wonder dose yours have the high speed headstock?

 

[pressbrake1]

No standard

 

[Spark plug]

Well that sort of rules that out.

Possibly deeper investigation required.

 

[Agroshield]

Silly question: is the oil currently in there known to be of the correct specification?

Perhaps ask a few of the smaller oil companies for suggestions - tell them the original spec. and that you want a more winter-suitable version of it.

It is almost as if you need a multi-grade oil as a substitute for the original single-grade.

Smith and Allen have been helpful for me in the past. There is also Rye Oils, Hallett Oils and even Morris Oils.

One other thing to bear in mind: the OE oil spec. is based on industrial use, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, throughout a year. What percentage of this does your current use represent?

 

[lostcookie]

If it turns fine by hand I'd be looking at the motor. Take the belts off and see if it starts reliably. The disadvantage to DSG machines was they liked to use motors the size and weight of baby elephants so if it is a motor fault.....

 

[Brad93]

I need to change the oil in the DSG’s headstock firstly because I don’t know when it was last changed and secondly as it doesn’t like the cold.

When the weather turns colder the motor hasn’t got enough torque to start in star, it just sits stalled until the starter switches to delta then starts up with a big current surge. This not being good for the lathe and Likely to get me in trouble with the neighbours for making their lights flicker while they are trying to watch Eastenders.

Because the lathe has been fine all summer, since last winter I’m blaming whatever oil is in there. Normally I wouldn’t be too fussy with oil and use any modern substitute that is suitable, but in this case I think I may have to be a little more selective.

The manual specifies Shell Vitrea 27 from what I’ve found the closest available equivalent is Mobil DTE oil light but it’s very expensive. There’s a company on eBay called Westway lubricants selling an “equivalent” to Vitrea 27 but I’m a little dubious to what’s in the bottle.

Or do I just go with a quality hydraulic 32 and hope for the best?

Any input would be appreciated.

Vitrea 27 is just a mineral oil. Or should I say it was. Like you say the modern equivalent is apparently an ISO32 oil.

A modern hydraulic oil like ISO 68 would do the job just fine. As long as it’s got some anti wear and anti corrosion additives and is safe for brass/copper/red metal bearings.

 

[pressbrake1]

Vitrea 27 is just a mineral oil. Or should I say it was. Like you say the modern equivalent is apparently an ISO32 oil.

A modern hydraulic oil like ISO 68 would do the job just fine. As long as it’s got some anti wear and anti corrosion additives and is safe for brass/copper/red metal bearings.

68 is very thick, the same as way oil but without the stick additive
In fact my Rockford uses iso68 hyd oil in the hydraulics and table forced lubrication.
68 can also be a pita in certain gearbox applications as it thick enough to hydraulic lock selector rods , detects etc

 

[Brad93]

68 is very thick, the same as way oil but without the stick additive
In fact my Rockford uses iso68 hyd oil in the hydraulics and table forced lubrication.
68 can also be a pita in certain gearbox applications as it thick enough to hydraulic lock selector rods , detects etc

Most Harrison’s run ISO 68 fine.

At the end of the day anything is better than 30 year old oil.

 

[hobby_machinist]

Does your lathe has a oil bath clutch in headstock. If it does be carefull what you put in because you will f it up. Dont ask me how i know. If it dont, its just gears, maybe try hydraulic oil 46, thats what I use in my Emco maximat super 11

 

[Spark plug]

Silly question: is the oil currently in there known to be of the correct specification?

Perhaps ask a few of the smaller oil companies for suggestions - tell them the original spec. and that you want a more winter-suitable version of it.

It is almost as if you need a multi-grade oil as a substitute for the original single-grade.

Smith and Allen have been helpful for me in the past. There is also Rye Oils, Hallett Oils and even Morris Oils.

One other thing to bear in mind: the OE oil spec. is based on industrial use, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, throughout a year. What percentage of this does your current use represent?

I have no idea what’s in apart from topping it up with a couple of gallon of hydraulic 32 as the oil pressure light flickered at times when I first got it.

If it turns fine by hand I'd be looking at the motor. Take the belts off and see if it starts reliably. The disadvantage to DSG machines was they liked to use motors the size and weight of baby elephants so if it is a motor fault.....

It’s been fine all summer just started to miss behave again one day this week when it was cold.

Does your lathe has a oil bath clutch in headstock. If it does be carefull what you put in because you will f it up. Dont ask me how i know. If it dont, its just gears, maybe try hydraulic oil 46, thats what I use in my Emco maximat super 11

yes it has an oil immersed clutch and I’m well aware of the pitfalls.

Vitrea 27 is just a mineral oil. Or should I say it was. Like you say the modern equivalent is apparently an ISO32 oil.

A modern hydraulic oil like ISO 68 would do the job just fine. As long as it’s got some anti wear and anti corrosion additives and is safe for brass/copper/red metal bearings.

With the starting trouble I’m having a ISO 68 oil may not be helpful.

 

[pressbrake1]

Most Harrison’s run ISO 68 fine.

At the end of the day anything is better than 30 year old oil.

Most definitely not!
I know from experience what 68 will do in a machine that doesn’t like it!
Also are you talking about Harrison with multi plate clutches and brakes? And splash lube?

 

[Brad93]

Most definitely not!
I know from experience what 68 will do in a machine that doesn’t like it!
Also are you talking about Harrison with multi plate clutches and brakes? And splash lube?

Yeah splash lubrication

 

[Milkybars]

@Brad93 I think that 68 for splash lube is really way to heavy, ISO 32 is what i would be using.
Remember your relying on start up for it to be thrown to the top of the box and then get to all the bearings.

68 will be like fudge when it's nice an cold (maybe not fudge but you get my drift)

 

[Milkybars]

Maybe blancmange

 

[Brad93]

If it was good enough in 1969 I think it’s good enough today.