Lawnmower help

[mpats]

Right folks, I'm after a bit of the collective wisdom from you all. I know quite a few of the guys on here know about this stuff.
Long story short, the Dog agility club my folks go to has a ride on mower. Recently got it back from a service for them, it was being used on Tuesday. The person using it notice a bit of smoke coming out from down around the cutting deck, finished cutting, put it into the container, topped up the oil and left it. Not sure why he topped up the oil.
We popped out today and had a look, it won't start. Drained oil down to a sensible level after checking and finding it was well over the top, when you turn the key you hear the starter try to turn it but it just clunks.
The deck was disengaged so it should start. Having a look under the bonnet you can see the fan on top try to turn.
Popped into the place we got it serviced, he reckoned it was more likely a flat battery and or deck still engaged than a seized motor, so the battery is out and being charged tonight to try again tomorrow, just wondered if any of you chaps had come across any issues with these briggs motors similar. He thought the smoke would be the belt, which would probably need changing.

Sounds to me like the bloke cutting the grass was working it a bit hard and put it away without much thought.

 

[Dieselman 63]

I've got a mower with a B&S motor, pretty crap if you ask me, constantly needs fettling/mucking about with to get it going nicely. I have given up now and turn it off with a wooden pole and knock the spark plug connector off!

 

[mpats]

With the ignition OFF - take the guard off the top and you should be able to turn the fan/flywheel by hand - there'll obviously be resistance, but it should turn.

See if it's trying to turn the blade, and if fitted (should have one) see if the electric clutch is trying to turn with the engine...

I'll give it a try tomorrow, was able to rotate the blades with ignition off, after managing to get it to disengage the cutting deck, before hand I couldn't turn either of the blades. Of course the switch had been left in the cutting position
Have to admit I'm not sure on the clutch, it's hydrostatic, there's a disengage lever in the rear wheel well so you can push it if needed. Perhaps tomorrow it's worth a try with the lever pulled to disengage it?

 

[normspanners]

Has it got oil on top of the piston, take the plug out and try to turn it.

 

[mpats]

Has it got oil on top of the piston, take the plug out and try to turn it.

Will do cheers Norm, I'm hoping not as he put it away then topped up the oil, hopefully he didn't run it once he had topped it up.

 

[angellonewolf]

I've got a mower with a B&S motor, pretty crap if you ask me, constantly needs fettling/mucking about with to get it going nicely. I have given up now and turn it off with a wooden pole and knock the spark plug connector off!

i cant say the same as you briggs and stratton are very good engines the only one i have ever seen not working and not been brung back to life and running well is one and that was beacause the bloke run the oil dry

i will say all the ones i have worked on are push mowers( and not just one or 2 i see 10 to 20 a year for the last 7 years) not ride on dont know if this makes a differance

mine is 30 years old was given to me by a close friend and will not be got rid of by me but was running a bit ruff just a cough a bit to regular for my liking so a carb clean in a sonic tank and full service kit runs like new again time for this was an hour and a half tops i expect it to last another 10years more now apart from oil change and spark plugs

the only mowers i have seen better is honda as they never seam to go wrong the deaks normaly rot before not working or the people that buy honda mowers pay to have them fixed as i very rare for me to pick one up not working with a honda engine (i got a honda engine spaire if the engine on my mower at the moment ever brakes but dont expect to use it

 

[Bill Edwards]

It sounds like it may have been a belt slipping causing the smoke.

Not turning over fully might be that the mower deck was still engaged and it was too much for the starter to manage, or there could be a battery, starter, engine or bad connection problem.

It's worth charging the battery as you are doing and pulling the plug as suggested by Norm and see how that goes. It should be not too hard to turn by hand with no plug, but make sure you are turning it the right way. Do you have a multimeter or jump leads to go onto further checks if it still doesn't turn?

 

[gordon stephenson]

Here's my lawnmower,

 

[mpats]

It sounds like it may have been a belt slipping causing the smoke.

Not turning over fully might be that the mower deck was still engaged and it was too much for the starter to manage, or there could be a battery, starter, engine or bad connection problem.

It's worth charging the battery as you are doing and pulling the plug as suggested by Norm and see how that goes. It should be not too hard to turn by hand with no plug, but make sure you are turning it the right way. Do you have a multimeter or jump leads to go onto further checks if it still doesn't turn?

Yeh, got multi-meter and jump leads, taking my car tomorrow instead of the old man's so will have all the tools I'll need. If the charged batter doesn't work and I can't get it going the service place has a wee trailer to pick it up with, was a bit of a pain getting it into our trailer, had to put blocks at the front to drive it onto so the front bumper (for want of a better description) was over hanging the front trailer board.

Cheers for the suggestions so far chaps.

 

[normspanners]

The smoke may have been it burning the excess oil, my bet is he topped it up before he started.

 

[mpats]

I bloody hope not! Mind you, if it's not an easy fix it's the clubs problem so they will pay for the service place to fix it.

 

[normspanners]

the Dog agility club

Here's my lawnmower,

that dog doesnt look very agile !

 

[mpats]

that dog doesnt look very agile !

I think it might struggle with some of the tunnels!

 

[voipio]

Oil on top of the piston seconded, or perhaps it should be to the side of the piston, since "flymo" type lawn mower engines generally have horizontal cylinders. If it was overfilled, the oil would have slowly seeped in overnight. Suggest taking the plugs out and turning it over by hand, taking care to catch the the oil coming out. There again, if the oil level is now correct, at least some of it will have slowly seeped back out from the top of the piston. Still best to check, and the plugs will probably have been fouled by oil, so will need cleaning/replacing.

 

[mpats]

Oil on top of the piston seconded, or perhaps it should be to the side of the piston, since "flymo" type lawn mower engines generally have horizontal cylinders. If it was overfilled, the oil would have slowly seeped in overnight. Suggest taking the plugs out and turning it over by hand, taking care to catch the the oil coming out. There again, if the oil level is now correct, at least some of it will have slowly seeped back out from the top of the piston. Still best to check, and the plugs will probably have been fouled by oil, so will need cleaning/replacing.

I shall find out tomorrow Voipio, as said, I don't know much about these engines so I'm happy for all suggestions and advice.

 

[Turbo]

Some of those briggs engines have an auto decompression system to ease starting & when they go faulty the engine won't turn over. Incorrect valve clearances can also cause this.

Are you sure it was all oil in the sump? If the carb float is not sealing correctly the float bowl overflows overnight & fills the sump with petrol! That's why you should always turn off the petrol tap after use!

 

[MrFluffy]

Its really easy to overfill some briggs installs because the sump is so wide, so you only have to be a few degrees off level and its miles off on the dipstick, ditto if you have some steep banking, I have to keep the oil level down the dipstick or I have problems on the steepest parts (although theres probably a argument to say I shouldnt be trying to drive the mower across them at that angle anyway). They take a age to clear out too. Also as the crankcase is connected to the air filter to reduce emissions in a overfil the excess can be blown up into the filter, take the filter off, it might be saturated in oil and never want to clear by itself.
I thought the motor in my mower I abuse with a acre of rough meadow was going to seize the day I did it, then I dropped the oil level and cleaned the filter and it still smoked for ages afterwards. After most of the garden it settled down and was ok.

I agree with the others that say the belt is possibly the source of the original smoke, and to turn it over by hand with the plug caps off to make sure it turns free. If it is difficult then investigate why. A lot have the easycrank grind on the cam which holds the valves open until the engine is at a certain rpm to make the starters job easier (and so they can fit a cheaper starter) so it won't start if the belt or drive is engaged as the extra drag from those stops the tiny starter spinning the engine up fast enough to have compression.

I could go on a rant about briggs as I'm not in the liking camp, but theyre so crap people keep giving me free ones. Nobody ever gives me a free honda engined mower.

 

[mpats]

Cheers gents, just having a mug of coffee to gird my loins then I'm heading out there. I shall report back this afternoon.

 

[angellonewolf]

thinking like most of the people years ago that borrowed stuff and then bring it back not working (this why i dont lend tools any more)

he had smoke out of the deak are you sure he did not hit some thing a stump, beer can if so it would have jamed the mechine and more than lighty sheared the keyway key and that would mean its not firing at the time when needed ?

on most of those they are fairly easy to cheak the keyway looking under the flywheel ?

 

[normspanners]

have problems on the steepest parts (although theres probably a argument to say I shouldnt be trying to drive the mower across them at that angle anyway).

there is a problem with 4strokes and banks because the the oil runs to the lowest part obviously and that may not be where the pick up, or the breather is, depending on the design, and the engines can then be running with NO lubrication,or it ends up in the combustion chamber thats why a lot of professional groundsmen use 2t engines on steep banks because they can be run upside down even and have no lubrication probs.
My mate hangs on to his several professional flymo 2t' s and keeps them running for that very purpose he ties ropes to them and has two men controlling one mower, forming a 'triangle control' and can glide them along banks that you cant walk down!. similar to this but the guys are at the top

Also as the crankcase is connected to the air filter to reduce emissions in a overfil the excess can be blown up into the filter, take the filter off, it might be saturated in oil and never want to clear by itself.

that is why I thought there could be oil on top of the piston in the combustion chamber if so it will never start.