Learn TIG before anything else?

[eddypeck]

I've got very little experience of welding and as yet have no equipment, I have recently done a vehicle resto course at night school, that touched on welding so I have a couple of hours of MIG under my belt but that's about it, apart from a bit of theory and a few YouTube videos.

But the other day I was chatting to someone about it and said I was looking to get a MIG but they said if I've got no experience and nothing to compare it to I may as well learn TIG first and invest in TIG equipment then I'd be set up for life, and would find MIG easy in comparison.

Unfortunately the conversation got cut off so I wasn't able to quiz this guy further but just wondered on opinions on this?


Slightly off topic, but I like to relate things to real life experiences I can understand:

So I'm relating this to when I learned to JetSki, I had an original Kawasaki model from the 80's, a small 440cc. It was narrow, under-powered and hard to control, but I mastered it.

My mate had a modern Yamaha 650 that was just miles easier to control, he could never ride my 440. But when I finally got a Yamaha the same as his I blew him away.

 

[Richard.]

I don't see why you can't learn Tig first, it will take longer than other easier welding processes. I don't think your case scenario will apply so well with welding because unlike swapping from one jet ski to another which I'm guessing although they behaved differently the general principles will be similar. Different welding processes are completely different other than they are all hot and (mostly) bright. If you did Tig for a year and never touched an mma welder then one day went onto mma it will be like starting all over again as the whole process and the way it's done is different. Who knows you could take to them all like a duck to water. It took me a long time to get proficient in the 3 main processes and my mma is still a little out of sync as I do it once a week at the very most.

 

[cumbriasteve]

The advice you got from your mate is not as easy as that, what you intend to weld, where you intend to weld, your budget and frequency of use should all be considered.

Pointless going down the TIG route if for example you only want to weld a pair of car sills on once a year and make a garden gate or similar.

 

[RonA]

I also dabble in vehicle repair & restoration.
I have owned a Cebora 130 turbo mig for over 10 years & recently aquired a scratch start Inverter Tig set.
Many years ago I took a 24 week course on welding at the local college of knowledge. Despite spending many hours gas welding (which I eventually mastered) I found the Tig set hard going & supposedly the two techniques are comparable. The Mig set however took very little time to pick up & although I don't claim to be the worlds most expert on the Mig, I can pull off a passable weld.
Cost wise, the Mig is definitely by far the cheaper & most versatile. The mig set cost me £200+ & I use Co2 as shield gas which keeps costs low. The Tig set cost me £400+ & you can only use the proper shield gas, which is considerably dearer to rent the bottle & buy the gas

 

[daleyd]

As above, there's no reason why not but if your mainly going to be using it for car work then TIG isn't going to be the most suitable. (It's slower than MIG, quite difficult to master and hard to weld out of position with it).

TIG is great, and can produce some great looking welds (Not in my hands though ha ha) but it doesn't really lend itself to (General) car work I'm afraid. (Obviously there are many car applications where it is the preferred choice eg race cars, exhaust fab, custom cars etc, but I'm talking about general car maintenance/restoration).

 

[eddypeck]

Thanks guys, I'm just looking to maintain my own couple of retro/classic cars, and hopefully take on a bigger resto project (classic beetle) in the future. On top of that perhaps little MOT jobs for friends and family for beer money (my way of justifying the out lay for the equipment) and my kids are teens and learning to drive on private land so not too long before they're looking at transport and I've already cottoned on MOT failures because of welding can be had for peanuts.

So looks like I'll ignore his 'wise' words for now and stick with Plan A and the MIG I've been learning.

All comments greatly appreciated and now feeling a bit silly for even asking, but you know how once someone says something it's get you wondering.

 

[eddypeck]

Oh, and whilst I have dreams of knocking up a custom exhaust and fabricating race car style sub-frames etc. (how hard can it be ) I guess I'll park those ideas for now

 

[daleyd]

Why? No reason you can't MIG those! (Providing you have a strong weld, it doesn't matter the process - to a certain extent)

 

[Richard.]

If you already have a mig and can use it effectively then I say go for it with Tig. You can still do your car restoration with your mig while learning a new skill for other types of welding.

 

[daleyd]

^^ Good point Richard, none of that advice was meant to put you off eddypeck - just that if you were taking it up with a car project in mind MIG would be the preferred option.

 

[Wallace]

Worth mentioning, the running costs of a Tig are higher than a Mig. If you think you might want to try all the processes perhaps consider one of the Mig sets that also do MMA & Tig such as this.

 

[Mr shiney]

Personally I would go with MIG. I use MIG for most general fabrication jobs and car repairs. Its quick, its easy and can tolerate less than clean conditions. TIG is an art form, requires a great deal of skill and scrupulous cleanliness. I love TIG and am putting in the work to get proficient. But I have the advantage of having a number of machines so can use whatever is needed at the time.

 

[Richard.]

That's a good point a multiprocess machine gives you a taste of all angles and the DC lift Tig is more than good enough to learn on, you could sell the other machines to part fund it. Only downside is 2 gas bottles but this would be case whichever route you went down to mig and Tig.

 

[Richard.]

I'm getting confused here I think and reading wrong posts thinking it's from the op. It's Friday !!!!

 

[eddypeck]

That 3-in-1 machine does look like a handy bit of kit but I bit more than I'll be able to spend. A present I have no equipment at all, so there's nothing to sell on. I have been looking at the Sealey Supermig 180 as it's the cheapest one they do with Eurotorch, dial settings and big bottle regs, I'm kind of thinking for what I need that's not essential, but will be the only welder I'll ever need rather than start smaller and find I want to upgrade in a couple of years.

It's currently on sale, but they had a better deal before Christmas with a few extras included; quick change mask, gloves, etc.... for the same price. But I couldn't get the cash together, so I'll keep an eye on their deals and hopefully they'll do a similar start up kit again.

 

[Mr shiney]

I have a Thermal Arc 181i Fabricator which is a multimode machine. I rarely use the stick, mostly on big stuff thats too big for the MIG. I never really got on with the lift TIG side of it, kept knackering tungstens but it was a good introduction to TIG. I now have the Thermal Arc 202 ACDC TIG which is an amazing bit of kit.

A 3-1 machine is probably the best way to go as its gives you more scope to learn and explore.

 

[Richard.]

If it's car restoration work your primarily getting into then you'll find cheaper than a 180 sealy, the thing to look for is its minimum current setting. You'll never go close to 180 amps unless your welding 5-6 mm thick section. Look for machines capable of 30 amps or less on the minimum setting. Inverters are best for this but a little pricey, Clarke , cebora(snap-on) do little transformers with low power settings and can be picked up at low cost.

 

[Richard.]

I have a Thermal Arc 181i Fabricator which is a multimode machine. I rarely use the stick, mostly on big stuff thats too big for the MIG. I never really got on with the lift TIG side of it, kept knackering tungstens but it was a good introduction to TIG. I now have the Thermal Arc 202 ACDC TIG which is an amazing bit of kit.

A 3-1 machine is probably the best way to go as its gives you more scope to learn and explore.

If a sealy is on the top end of his budget I doubt a TA 181 will be within reach.

 

[daleyd]

I'd second the 3in1 if you can stretch to it, at the risk of sounding like a broken record as I'm always banging on about how handy I find mine!

If your on a budget though, check out the used equipment section on here, there are some bargains to be had there. Also ebay for decent secondhand industrial machines, I've seen some recently that look like they've seen little use. In the hands of a hobbyist they'll last a lifetime. Even second hand clarkes are worth a look if you can get a decent one, though always check it welds ok before parting with cash.

 

[eddypeck]

Yes, I'm keeping an eye out in all the usual places ebay, gumtree, local sites, etc. and of course on here. But post Christmas I've got no funds and my wife has just finished her job so it's put on hold for now anyway.... hopefully back on track in a couple months.

Part of the reason for looking at the Sealey stuff is I have a mate with a trade account that has said he can get a bit off for me which makes it much more attractive.

And whilst I could go for there entry level 130 which would be sub £200 with discount and I'm sure it'll be fine for the hobby work I intend to do, I've been told the dials controls will give better sensitivity than the basic hi/low 2 setting switch and the replaceable eurotorch seems like a sensible idea for longevity.

But hey, I know nothing so listening to any advice.