metal shaper

[Screwdriver]

Ideally I'd like a full size Bridgeport milling machine but that will have to wait for various reasons. Meantime I bought myself this:

It's a small, benchtop powered shaper as opposed to a manual device (life's too short). It was cheap enough at £60 and I didn't expect too much from it. I jury rigged a makeshift tensioner so I could stick a belt on it and knocked up a stand in speedframe so I could fit a motor.

Did it in sketchup first of course then made it real.

Goes ok.

But there's a problem with the surface finish. You can hear it actually but here's what it looks like.

And that finish is perpendicular to the tool, the tool is going right to left in that image! The regularity of the surface flaw suggests the problem is with gear noise or rumble from the large drive gear.

I have finessed a fair few bits and pieces already but my next job is to dress the gear wheel on the lathe and make up a new phosphor bronze bushing. I think there's too much play and too much runout on that main gear.

I need either a plain bar or a cored section of phosphor bronze to make a 2" diameter (1.75"ID) by 2.5" long bushing. Can anyone help? Is there some other material I could use?

Cheers

Screwd.

 

[Tigman]

nice little machine for £60

 

[Screwdriver]

It was an amazing haul in total. Surface plate, mint Record 84M, micrometers, 75 litres of paraffin in vintage oil cans, a ton of stuff. Would be nice to get the shaper running respectably though. Can't believe it would do that from new, even if that was over a century ago.

 

[MattF]

Check the likes of bearingboys and such. They may have a suitable PB bush listed. You didn't have the cutter over extended, (haven't watched that video), or any possible simple cause like that?

 

[Screwdriver]

I probably did at one time or another but I swapped cutters, profiles, used a machine jack under the bed, super heavy vice etc. etc.

As I made the machine more stable and more rigid, the undulations in the finish became more regular. I'll make another video in a minute of it running without a tool. It makes the same rumbling noise on the forward stroke, without cutting anything!

Yes. I have checked the gibs. Several times. I think its runout and slop on the main gear. Possibly even over-engagement with the driven gear.

S.

 

[waddycall]

That's lovely. If I had a shaper I'd probably spend hours watching it turn stock into chips. Good luck with the noise/vibration issue. That'll be a really nice little machine when you've sorted it. Might be worth running it by hand for a few cuts to see if the finish is better. My flimsy little lathe was on an angle iron stand when I got it and vibration from the motor really messed up the surface finish.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

It's hard to see but it looks like your tool is ground to cut left to right but your cutting right to left?

 

[Gritineye]

sounds like a good haul you came home with.

Agree the tool is wrong, a round end with a small amount of back clearance and top rake will work both ways.

For a better finish use a that tool very sharp and traversing the other way, for a really fine finish use a shear tool

Is your clapper box free to move?

 

[Screwdriver]

Yeah. Guys, I tried every tool and every grind. Carbide, flat, shear, and the tool above cutting in both directions, different speeds yadda yadda.

There's no way I can imagine that such a regular pattern can emerge from random chatter. And yes, I did turn the workpiece and try cutting across the chatter. Came back exactly the same. Pretty sure it's the gear, I just don't know exactly how.

The gear has a 2inch axle built in which runs in a bushing and that bushing is loose, so I need to remake it. I just discovered, I already have a suitable piece of phosphor bronze that came with it. I also picked up a bunch of "scrap" stock which the seller was about to weigh in. The former owner must have been just about to do the same before he kicked the bucket.

The big gear in this picture is the culprit:

You can see it has a large casting to carry the adjustable ram arm. That makes it tricky to mount in a four jaw but I have it in there now. I had to center it with the stub axle which I am fairly sure is running out wrt the machined teeth. ideally I'd like to center it up using the edge of the teeth but I had a lot of trouble. Is there a trick to it?

Here's the noise it makes without cutting

I'm hoping a new tighter bushing will help but I will need to have a closer look at those particular teeth on the power stroke, see if there's any wear.

S.

 

[500e]

The Elf & safety people just love them, are you sure that there is no wear in the slides either vertical or side to side

 

[tinman123]

the cam mount on the gear wheel, it might be the pic but it looks like it was welded on, but if its original to the machine i wouldnt say they were cracking out any welders for that machine, i take its cast into the gear is it?

how are you holding it in the chuck at the mo, is there a boss to grip on the back or have you it clamped on the teeth?
do you need to bore it out or are you just wanting to check it?

the ways on it look dry, but it might just be the video angle as quick, id oil them if they are tho, bridgeport would recommend you oil their ways every time you use the machine to give you an idea, with way oil none the less.

 

[Screwdriver]

Slides and gibs are perfectly adjusted. The gear has a 2 inch boss machined to fit the bushing, it is all cast in one unit. The whole machine is perfectly oiled.

The large gear is currently clamped by the outer teeth in a four jaw and centred on the existing boss which I think may be out of alignment with the machining of the teeth. By probably 10 - 20 thou from my awkward effort to measure it.

I still haven't been able to look at the driving teeth which it occurs to me, will always be the same few teeth doing all the work.

S.

 

[Screwdriver]

It occurs to me that it is not obvious which way the motor should rotate. The ram does not appear to change speed much in either direction of stroke, when you might expect the longer duration stroke to be the cutting cycle.

I figure the rotation was correct because it is the correct phase for the indexing of the cross slide. However, thinking about it, I can probably reassemble the mechanism to phase the drive any way I like. It is possible the machine has been assembled incorrectly at some time in the past.

Until I get out there and play with the linkages, I can't be sure. Been looking at the first video and trying to figure it out but it won't compute. I guess the indexing drive is the same ratio as the main ram drive so it's probably just a case of sticking the wheel back on 180 degrees out.

Doesn't mean to say it will cure that horrible rumbling but it can't be any worse. Plus, if the machine should run the other way around, it may run smoother just by blind luck...

S.

 

[Gritineye]

Any wear in the bull gear teeth may be mostly at the change of ram direction points.

You may find the main spindle bush isn't worn too much but the spindle it self worn tapered in line with the same COD points but not evenly all round, that's how it was on mine.
I turned the spindle down and made an undersized bush to suit.

If you have wear like that it could well be the cause of your surface markings, now I've fixed mine I can still hear the gear meshing sound alter at the COD points (the teeth are different there) but it doesn't show in the finish.

Hope you can understand all that it's a bit tricky to explain!

 

[Gritineye]

The difference it ram stroke is most noticeable on the longest stroke, in you have it set quite short in the pics.

 

[Screwdriver]

Any wear in the bull gear teeth may be mostly at the change of ram direction points.

You may find the main spindle bush isn't worn too much but the spindle it self worn tapered in line with the same COD points but not evenly all round, that's how it was on mine.
I turned the spindle down and made an undersized bush to suit.

If you have wear like that it could well be the cause of your surface markings, now I've fixed mine I can still hear the gear meshing sound alter at the COD points (the teeth are different there) but it doesn't show in the finish.

Hope you can understand all that it's a bit tricky to explain!

Makes perfect sense thanks. The bushing as shown in the picture above looks hand finished in real life. As if someone has filed it down! The spindle looks good since you can see the machining marks on it (I assume they are original) but I am planning to grind that to perfection and make a new bushing to suit.

Do you have a similar direct drive machine? What speed motor and which direction does the arm push the ram from?

 

[ronan]

Its like the old aussy mit-a-mit shapers, in that the ram moves left to right rather than the box cube on the front.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I am slightly dubious about whether the workpiece is ridgid enough, on my Elliott 10M the workpiece is attached to a cube that rides on ways fixed to the main casting with an adjustable support bar that slides on the steel base cabinet. The whole thing is extremely ridgid with no flex.
I'm wondering whether the marks you are seeing are flex marks as the workpiece moves and springs back?

Not my machine but the same model.

 

[I'm getting on a bit]

The first thing I would try is tool bit ground to a much smaller radius This will reduce loading on machine.

I only ever used a shaper for removing mill scale on tool steel or removing a lot of stock

They are not known for their superior surface finish

 

[Screwdriver]

I am slightly dubious about whether the workpiece is ridgid enough

Like this, with a machine vice supported by a machine jack

It still cut the same pattern even in steel vice jaws

I think I have ruled out flex and like I say, have tried a variety of different tools, profiles, cuts, speeds....

I did buy this for it but I don't think on it's own it will cure the problem.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371570082052?_trksid=p2057872

S.