Mini ex or back hoe?

[TheBrick]

Morning all,
I am after your learned opinions / thoughts. We have some land and need to remove top soil and grade out with recycled crushed concrete or similar MOT for a small parking area, do the same for a about a 50m track and again remove top soil and grade for what will be a "workshop" / barn extension.

Budget is tight as always compromises are made.

What's your opinion on what (very old) machine to buy.

#1. Old back hoe. There is an old mf40 for sale localish. Also a old ford something or other.

#2. A mini excavator.

Back hoe has a loader which is useful in general (loading stuff) but is more manoeuvring. Mini ex could be used after job is done for some man with digger work as another string to my bow, but seems much more expensive.

I have a little (tiny) experience on mini ex digging footings. None on a back hoe. Some tractor driving experience. So not an expert operator so no idea what would be the better tool or how much harder work one would be over the other!

Again budget is tight, hiring doesn't work as this is a weekend/ evening job grabbing anything from 30min to day here and there. Plus having some form of digger is pretty dam cool if I can justify it.

 

[reb78]

I went through this recently. Ended up with a Ford 655C backhoe. Mini digger vs excavator - I could come up with as many pro's and cons for each so noone really won. For me, I think the backhoe won in the end as the loader will probably be more useful for a lot of other stuff long term and most of the jobs I needed to do were larger rather crude jobs that didnt need the finesse of a mini digger. Also, while more manouvering as you say... if i make piles of earth, I also need to move them and the backhoe and loader is better for this!

 

[Gareth J]

Hire as big an excavator and its operative as access/job constraints will allow? I know they're a fairly significant hourly rate but there are a lot of advantages.

 

[sako243]

I've your ground is flat then a backhoe is more versatile but is slower at hogging out ground (digging) than a 360. However if you have a 4in1 or 6in1 bucket on the front then once you master it you'll blitz grading tasks. I find an excavator is more forgiving than a backhoe if you're inexperienced.

Having said that after doing most of the ground works at my place the back actor on the JCB hardly gets used but the forks and loader bucket are always in use.

 

[Erie Fred]

A tracked skid steer will dig pretty good.
Rent one for a weekend and see how you get on with it.

 

[RWD3M]

.. Plus having some form of digger is pretty dam cool if I can justify it.

 

[gaz1]

lidl/aldi have a water level kit in at the moment it will come in handy if you buy 2 of them for leveling out

only 5.00 for the kit 15m

 

[Smallfry]

Also depends on how big or small a space you need to get the machine into.

Each have their merits, but I would go for an excavator. They are a bit slow though, so a quick getaway after pulling an ATM out of a wall is not really feasible.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

With grading a track as part of the work, I would be inclined to say backhoe.

However, if you can find one at a suitable price, a rubber-duck (wheeled 360 excavator) might be a better overall option, and being significantly bigger than a mini, can take both hooks and pallet forks on the boom.

There's two 13T rubber ducks on eBay right now, a Poclain for 2k and a new(er) JCB for 5k both in tatty but running condition.

As a secondary point, it's probably worth your while signing up for the Ritchie Bros. Auctions at Maltby, (or equivalent closer to home).

They have a lot of ex-fleet minis and backhoes moving through each month, and if there's a glut of the same type of machines consigned all at once you see exceptionally good deals (like a low hours, 2012 Taikuchi 6T excavator in good mechanical condition for £1300!!!).

 

[Arc Tourist]

I would go for the tractor, which is more useful than a mini digger. I had a Kubota overseas when we had our, what you call here, a small holding. The tractor could accommodate a variety of accessories such as a Gannon box for grading, mower, and also a backhoe attachment, which I rented before buying a used one.

 

[addjunkie]

I would go for the tractor, which is more useful than a mini digger. I had a Kubota overseas when we had our, what you call here, a small holding. The tractor could accommodate a variety of accessories such as a Gannon box for grading, mower, and also a backhoe attachment, which I rented before buying a used one.View attachment 456787View attachment 456788

I had something very similar to that, a compromise in every department…wont lift a dumpy bag, or 1 ton pallet, notthe best or quickest at digging and dear for what it was. Im a digger and dumper fan. All depends on your long term work scope

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I had something very similar to that, a compromise in every department…wont lift a dumpy bag, or 1 ton pallet, notthe best or quickest at digging and dear for what it was. Im a digger and dumper fan. All depends on your long term work scope

Agreed, we used a bunch of those mini tractors on a small land remediation project in the middle east, because it was what we could obtain in country at short notice.

The flexibility and low price was completely offset by the additional man hours of having machines that would do everything we needed but nothing quite well enough.

Speccing similar projects now, we go for a cheap 130hp Chinese 4x4 tractor, plus either a JCB 4CX or whatever size of 360 makes sense plus short term hire of a bobcat when needed.

 

[Arc Tourist]

For our small ranch the 14 horsepower Kubota was perfect. The loader bucket would lift a full scoup of wet sand, that's about a third of a dumpy bag, which was alright as I was working for myself and not in a hurry, but I'd occasionally do seasonal grass/weed mowing for neighbour's to comply with fire regulations. A great all round machine, but a bit small for commercial use to make a living.

 

[sako243]

I used to have a B8600 or something like that (@Mikey D has it now I think), great for a small property if you're basically replacing wheel barrows etc., but found it was compromised in most things. Too big to be used as a lawn mower for me, not enough capability for digging and couldn't lift very much.

Replaced it with a 2CX which is an amazing little machine. Smaller than a Range Rover in footprint (albeit taller) but will lift 2t to 14ft, outdig a 5t 360 in reach and depth and height on the back actor. Being four wheel steer she turns in her own length. The lawn mowing duties have been replaced with a little New Holland 1220.

 

[nickk]

See if you can hire each,in quick succession to directly evaluate. I had a jcb 3c once ,now have a 1.7t digger,with my limited skill ,it’s much harder to be neat and precise with a backhoe.

 

[finyuk2005]

Have a look and see if you can figure out what would be more re-sellable when you are done,
I bet a decent working small excavator would be more sellable to the self build housing type people

 

[TheBrick]

Some really good points made thanks. Especially the resale point, however I know what I am like with selling tools, I find it hard!

lidl/aldi have a water level kit in at the moment it will come in handy if you buy 2 of them for leveling out

only 5.00 for the kit 15m

I have one from a previous middle of Lidl buy. They are brilliant. I have a laser but for some jobs I find them easier. I tape one to a post in ground with a fixed offset (usually 500mm) from datum then have a second post with the same offset that I walk around with. I like the fact that I can leave it out and it won't be nicked. Top tip. Put white tape on your datum line to make it easier to see from a distance. Also use a brew if tea in the tubes to make the fluid easier to see from a distance.

With grading a track as part of the work, I would be inclined to say backhoe.

However, if you can find one at a suitable price, a rubber-duck (wheeled 360 excavator) might be a better overall option, and being significantly bigger than a mini, can take both hooks and pallet forks on the boom.

There's two 13T rubber ducks on eBay right now, a Poclain for 2k and a new(er) JCB for 5k both in tatty but running condition.

As a secondary point, it's probably worth your while signing up for the Ritchie Bros. Auctions at Maltby, (or equivalent closer to home).

They have a lot of ex-fleet minis and backhoes moving through each month, and if there's a glut of the same type of machines consigned all at once you see exceptionally good deals (like a low hours, 2012 Taikuchi 6T excavator in good mechanical condition for £1300!!!).

Thanks for the tip on the auctions. I love a good farm auction so right up my street. I was originally thinking a 2.8t mini ex as I could tow it those prices are amazing.

 

[addjunkie]

A friend of mine, has bought a back actor for a Leyland tractor….pity he keeps getting it stuck in his crap wet muddy ground. Hell learn, hes not one to learn from others experiences.

I use a 1.5 ton mini digger, with a tipping trailer for most things now, but can borrow a 3 ton 4x4 dumper any time I want. Did the drive, shed bases, and my parking area with the digger and dumper. About 200 Ton of stone. Also have a loader tractor, but didn't use it much for moving stone. Though a 4in1 bucket is a useful thing on a track!

Little diggers, and such sell well, there is always demand. If your moving it on after the job, buy a decent one that you wont need to fix, because parts are dear!

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Thanks for the tip on the auctions. I love a good farm auction so right up my street. I was originally thinking a 2.8t mini ex as I could tow it those prices are amazing.

Very much luck of the draw, sometimes I see equipment go at them for way more than you'd pay at a second-hand dealer, then next month an equivalent piece of kit goes for some ridiculously low price.

The "towing weight" mini excavators definitely command a price premium over the slightly heavier ones that would need a pre '97 license, or C1+E to move yourself.

If you do have one of those "better" entitlements on your licence then that's worth bearing in mind... Even if it would mean getting an uprated trailer.

 

[jmp49]

I have had a jcb 3c3, and its 2wd sooner or later on boggy jobs it gets stuck and I have to walk out on the buckets, which is a great party trick, provided you dont mind destroying the ground your digging big divots out of while you are walking. Its versitile, and its capable of really moving muck and grades and all sorts of other jobs and its brilliant for demolition work and removing concrete pads etc so if your self building they are useful even for the days when you dont think you need a machine but one suddenly pops up. You can push fencing post stakes in just using the front bucket on top and the weight of the machine, they either drive in or explode in a mass of splinters 50/50 chance, which is more exciting than my neighbour with a auger on his mini digger experiences. Its also easy to accidentally knock down a building by digging too close to it and finding a hidden foundation stone, though it was due for demolition anyway, honest

Occasionally I consider selling it because my house is mostly finished and getting a small tracked mini digger because the jcb is a project in itself to keep in good order and 99% of the time its sat there parked idle or just being a power pack to run a wood splitter etc from its hydraulics. But I'd have to shell out a few thousand more + the selling price to get anything tracked that even runs let alone is in a good state.
I can legally tow a mini digger behind my landrover, and the jcb not road legal and weighs in at just under 8 ton fully dressed with fluids topped off so it has to go on a low loader which is expensive so I only use it for myself round my own property. Ive moved machinery on the forks, but I prefer my forklift as you can see what your doing and its more controlled plus my era JCB doesn't have parallel lift on the loader arms so I have to operate two levers to keep the forks level when I raise and lower them, and you cant see whats going on very well because theres a big 3-in-1 bucket blocking your view. The forklift gets stuck really easy on anything but the yard so its useless round the "garden", swings and roundabouts.
The jcb itself also a millstone of maintenance and fluids and parts & people trying to befriend you to "just pop round and do this little job for me, mate" and it takes a big space up in the yard, and it attracts "travelling scrap merchants" like flies round poo. Diesel costs is obvious but hydraulic oil and regular hose replacement & tyres are expensive unless its earning its keep. And when you have to take parts off to fix them because you could only afford the worst machine you saw because of budget, theyre big and heavy (this is where having a forklift is good...) I had to move my workshop around and put the milling machine inline with the door and have the dipper poked out the door to bore out the bushes on it. You will end up with a collection of enormous spanners, and a inch drive breaker bar etc. Maybe you haven't really lived until youve had to change a rear tyre in situ with tyre levers inside a muddy bog hole because you tore the sidewall on a hidden submerged rock and cant get the machine out without it & dont have a spare wheel.
I changed the engine once using a engine crane across the loader arms and oak sleepers, and it took me 2 days & I believe it was the sketchiest thing I ever did clambering round 5ft up in the air on a oily machine lunging for the cab as I slid off. And the engine crane bent its jib with the weight of the motor, being rated in chinese tons it seems. I had to do it with a forklift later on and it was in and out in a morning.

On the duck's, I'm not convinced they are not the worst of both worlds, they have wheels so get stuck in boggy ground, and they are a excavator so are difficult to drive/move on road & I think they're cheaper because of this. I always see them on road gangs working from a tarmac surface for this reason.

I guess the summary is , it depends, on what you have planned for it in future. And exactly how small your budget is, is it "buy a older nice machine thats not commercially viable to operate and not stuffed with electronics" or "buy that piece of crap that's been abused on contract work and a stream of uncaring owners for 40+ years" small. And once you have it, what you and your workshop is capable of dealing with.