New Lorch User

[pjk]

Hello!
I have been a Lorch user for the past 6 years. I just upgraded my MPro 250 control mig welder to a Saprom S3 mobile unit. I got the new welder with only 24 hrs. on the clock. I was told that it is 2 years old and the local Lorch dealer gave me a 1 year guarantee on the machine.

This is the first mig welder with the pulse feature and in this regard, I have my first question that I hope that someone can help me out with.
I have been practising welding 4 mm steel. I have found that to get good welds (butt,fillets, etc), I have to set the thickness setting to 2-2.5mm- otherwise I blow holes in the 4mm.
Do other users have this same problem?

Another problem that I have noticed is with the torch. On my old machine, I could use one hand to hold and guide the steel tube or tip of the torch, but with this torch the steel gets too hot, and I have to have both hands on the plastic part of the torch.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[pedrobedro]

I have to set the thickness setting to 2-2.5mm- otherwise I blow holes in the 4mm

You probably need to move the torch faster. Industrial welders assume everyone is on bonus.

 

[Welderpaul]

Hello!
I have been a Lorch user for the past 6 years. I just upgraded my MPro 250 control mig welder to a Saprom S3 mobile unit. I got the new welder with only 24 hrs. on the clock. I was told that it is 2 years old and the local Lorch dealer gave me a 1 year guarantee on the machine.

This is the first mig welder with the pulse feature and in this regard, I have my first question that I hope that someone can help me out with.
I have been practising welding 4 mm steel. I have found that to get good welds (butt,fillets, etc), I have to set the thickness setting to 2-2.5mm- otherwise I blow holes in the 4mm.
Do other users have this same problem?

Another problem that I have noticed is with the torch. On my old machine, I could use one hand to hold and guide the steel tube or tip of the torch, but with this torch the steel gets too hot, and I have to have both hands on the plastic part of the torch.

Thanks in advance for any help!

The thickness settings are almost an arbitrary guide. Welding 8-10mm plate for example I would be set at 5-5.2mm. Obviously this all depends on weld parameters, gas etc etc.

I'm guessing you are not using a Lorch Powermaster torch? Powermaster are cooled right up to the back of the shroud so you can hold it much further up than a conventional torch.

 

[pjk]

You probably need to move the torch faster. Industrial welders assume everyone is on bonus.

Pedro- thanks for the advice. Seems I will either need to move much faster than with the "Normal" mig setting or learn to understand that the welder runs hot, so I need to turn down the thickness setting.
Thanks.

 

[pjk]

The thickness settings are almost an arbitrary guide. Welding 8-10mm plate for example I would be set at 5-5.2mm. Obviously this all depends on weld parameters, gas etc etc.

I'm guessing you are not using a Lorch Powermaster torch? Powermaster are cooled right up to the back of the shroud so you can hold it much further up than a conventional torch.

Paul- thanks for the comment. It looks like I will have to learn to adjust the settings. It sounds like your experience is the same- the actual thickness settings are on the hot side.
I do have a Lorch Powermaster torch- ML 3800- gas cooled. My previous torch was a Abikor Binzel no frills torch, that really worked well and never got hot. I could weld using tig gloves and never had to let go of the steel part above the handle. With the Powermaster, I have to use heavy mig gloves and after a short while (10-15 mins) I have to let go of the steel and control the torch only using the plastic part.

 

[Maxakarudy]

You can use it in manual mode and set up like any other mig, especially on M/S, it's an expensive welder for this purpose, but aluminium is where they justify the money.

 

[Welderpaul]

Paul- thanks for the comment. It looks like I will have to learn to adjust the settings. It sounds like your experience is the same- the actual thickness settings are on the hot side.
I do have a Lorch Powermaster torch- ML 3800- gas cooled. My previous torch was a Abikor Binzel no frills torch, that really worked well and never got hot. I could weld using tig gloves and never had to let go of the steel part above the handle. With the Powermaster, I have to use heavy mig gloves and after a short while (10-15 mins) I have to let go of the steel and control the torch only using the plastic part.

Ours are water cooled so that will be where the difference is. The swan neck has a hard rubber coating so never gets hot enough otherwise it would melt!

You might just have to get used to holding the plastic bit instead of the hot bit.

 

[Richard.]

Our lorch guy @matt1978 would probably be able to dial you in for your requirements

 

[pjk]

Our lorch guy @matt1978 would probably be able to dial you in for your requirements

Thanks. I hope that he will latch on to this discussion.

 

[Richard.]

Thanks. I hope that he will latch on to this discussion.

He always replys. Sound guy Matt. He's tagged in so be patient and he will pop in to help I'm sure.

 

[matt1978]

Hi PJK,

Do you know if it is a Pulse machine or SpeedPulse?

In any case Pulse is far more demanding process on the torch and will make it hotter in comparison to standard Mig.

The ML 3800 you describe is in fact a Binzel torch, the direct equivalent is the Abi Mig 355 pro grip.

Can you give me more info regarding the wire/gas/material your looking to weld.

The material thickness in mm is a guide for T fillets in the flat position, as soon as you do positional work or butt Weld's etc the mm setting has little relevance, so you would be best working from the wire feed rate.

Which country are you in and what was the name of the dealer? Do you have the serial number of the unit to hand, I can verify the age if you would like

 

[Brad93]

Use the amperage setting, the thickness setting is good for short runs but on a long run it just gets too hot in my experience. I move quick but the speedpulse is too quick for me.

Better to use the 4T setting with the hot start at 120%.

 

[pjk]

Hi PJK,

Do you know if it is a Pulse machine or SpeedPulse?

In any case Pulse is far more demanding process on the torch and will make it hotter in comparison to standard Mig.

The ML 3800 you describe is in fact a Binzel torch, the direct equivalent is the Abi Mig 355 pro grip.

Can you give me more info regarding the wire/gas/material your looking to weld.

The material thickness in mm is a guide for T fillets in the flat position, as soon as you do positional work or butt Weld's etc the mm setting has little relevance, so you would be best working from the wire feed rate.

Which country are you in and what was the name of the dealer? Do you have the serial number of the unit to hand, I can verify the age if you would like

Hi Matt,
Thanks for the reply.
My machine is a regular Pulse Saprom S3 mobil s.n.- 0406-2219-0001-1. It would be quite helpful to know the actual age of the welder.
I am located in Riga, Latvia. Our local Lorch dealer is a company called GMG Welding. Very helpful and laid back guys. Before buying this new machine, they let me take it home and weld with it all weekend, no deposit, no contract just "bring it back on Monday, or let's make a deal and you keep it". Great guys.

Interesting on the Pulse being hotter that standard mig. This seems counter-intuitive as the pulse feature allows welding with lower heat input-- if I have understood the process correctly.

So Lorch just takes the Binzel torches and re-brands them? I thought that the changeable function button feature was a Lorch proprietary feature. Good to know that replacements can also be purchased from Abicor Binzel- I have never seen AB torches with the function buttons. I will have to search for these.

I primarily weld on rectangular steel tubing 2mm thick. We use 82%Argon 18% CO2 gas. We set the Lorch to the 80/20 option- as our local dealer said that this is close enough. We weld butt joints and fillet joints in all positions.
We also do some welding on Aluminum using 100% argon, and some SS work as well.
We have just tried brazing with the S3 using CuAl8 brazing wire that we have borrowed from an artist friend. We brazed 0.8mm automotive steel sheet metal panels. It was interesting that we achieved better brazed joints setting the machine as if it were using CuSi3 brazing wire. This gave us less spatter and better control than the CuAl8 setting.

I also liked your recommendation to work from the wire feed rate instead of setting the material thickness. I have never tried this before, but now it makes sense that when setting the feed rate, the thickness setting changes automatically. Do you have any pointers on how to set this and work with the speed? Maybe some info in the web that I could study?

Thank you again for your time and assistance! I am now on this site, but have been a member of the US based Welding Web website for a couple of years. Great discussions, good ideas, but unfortunately no discussions about Lorch machines. Miller, Lincoln- plenty, but no Lorch. It's a shame because as far as I have researched, Lorch are clearly superior machines.

 

[pjk]

Use the amperage setting, the thickness setting is good for short runs but on a long run it just gets too hot in my experience. I move quick but the speedpulse is too quick for me.

Better to use the 4T setting with the hot start at 120%.

Thanks Brad. Your recommendation is along the same lines as Matt's. Thanks.

 

[Brad93]

Basically the torches are made by binzel for Lorch, but the little power master control is all Lorch.

With pulse you have a peak and a background amperage, the amps shown on the readout is the mean/average amps. Heat input is reduced just by using pulse, however when you move faster you're still getting good penetration and weld profile, because of the pulse, that you wouldn't get if you tried to go fast with standard MIG/MAG welder so heat input is reduced further by your faster travel speed.

 

[pjk]

Basically the torches are made by binzel for Lorch, but the little power master control is all Lorch.

That makes sense.

 

[pjk]

Hi PJK,

Do you know if it is a Pulse machine or SpeedPulse?

In any case Pulse is far more demanding process on the torch and will make it hotter in comparison to standard Mig.

The ML 3800 you describe is in fact a Binzel torch, the direct equivalent is the Abi Mig 355 pro grip.

Can you give me more info regarding the wire/gas/material your looking to weld.

The material thickness in mm is a guide for T fillets in the flat position, as soon as you do positional work or butt Weld's etc the mm setting has little relevance, so you would be best working from the wire feed rate.

Which country are you in and what was the name of the dealer? Do you have the serial number of the unit to hand, I can verify the age if you would like

Hi Matt,
I did you have a chance to check the stats on my machine?

"Hi Matt,
Thanks for the reply.
My machine is a regular Pulse Saprom S3 mobil s.n.- 0406-2219-0001-1. It would be quite helpful to know the actual age of the welder.
I am located in Riga, Latvia. Our local Lorch dealer is a company called GMG Welding. Very helpful and laid back guys. Before buying this new machine, they let me take it home and weld with it all weekend, no deposit, no contract just "bring it back on Monday, or let's make a deal and you keep it". Great guys.

Interesting on the Pulse being hotter that standard mig. This seems counter-intuitive as the pulse feature allows welding with lower heat input-- if I have understood the process correctly.

So Lorch just takes the Binzel torches and re-brands them? I thought that the changeable function button feature was a Lorch proprietary feature. Good to know that replacements can also be purchased from Abicor Binzel- I have never seen AB torches with the function buttons. I will have to search for these.

I primarily weld on rectangular steel tubing 2mm thick. We use 82%Argon 18% CO2 gas. We set the Lorch to the 80/20 option- as our local dealer said that this is close enough. We weld butt joints and fillet joints in all positions.
We also do some welding on Aluminum using 100% argon, and some SS work as well.
We have just tried brazing with the S3 using CuAl8 brazing wire that we have borrowed from an artist friend. We brazed 0.8mm automotive steel sheet metal panels. It was interesting that we achieved better brazed joints setting the machine as if it were using CuSi3 brazing wire. This gave us less spatter and better control than the CuAl8 setting.

I also liked your recommendation to work from the wire feed rate instead of setting the material thickness. I have never tried this before, but now it makes sense that when setting the feed rate, the thickness setting changes automatically. Do you have any pointers on how to set this and work with the speed? Maybe some info in the web that I could study?

Thank you again for your time and assistance! I am now on this site, but have been a member of the US based Welding Web website for a couple of years. Great discussions, good ideas, but unfortunately no discussions about Lorch machines. Miller, Lincoln- plenty, but no Lorch. It's a shame because as far as I have researched, Lorch are clearly superior."

 

[matt1978]

Hi,

I can only tell you the year in which the machine was built, (which was early May 2012) its doesn't mean a great deal if the machine had only a few hours on the clock because this is an accurate display of the hours the machine has actually welded for....Blue light time.

 

[pjk]

Hi,

I can only tell you the year in which the machine was built, (which was early May 2012) its doesn't mean a great deal if the machine had only a few hours on the clock because this is an accurate display of the hours the machine has actually welded for....Blue light time.

Thanks Matt.
Have there been any upgrades to my machine since May 2012- are there any features in the newest S3 Mobil model that my machine does not have?

 

[matt1978]

In 2008 we launched SpeedArc and SpeedPulse. A couple of years later we added SpeedRoot, SpeedUp and SpeedCold. These would all be available as upgrades for your machine.

Last year we launched SpeedPulse-XT and SpeedArc-XT which wouldn't be able to be added to your machine as it's different hardware inside the machine.

I have to stress though, that ever since we launched the original SpeedPulse we have run two lines of the S Series. The "Standard" Pulse version and the "SpeedPulse" version. There has always been a increased price for the SpeedPulse version. You can add the SpeedPulse and the other processes as after market upgrades but there would be a cost involved