New member with first mig

[Jay76]

Hi all, after scanning this site a few time I've gone and brought a secondhand mig welder off eBay, for my dad to try and teach me to weld with, this is what's turned this morning for £46 inc p&p



It looks like at some point might have had a new torch



It also came with 2 face mask and a spool of sip gasless wire, I have tried it quickly this morning on some scrap metal and all seems to work fine to me seeing as I've never used one before.

I can't seem find any info about this machine on the internet, although it is stamped on the front saying output: min 28amp, 60% 45amp, max 100 amp.

if my old man can ever teach me i would be looking at using it in the future for some car bodywork repairs, does the machine seem ok for the job and is it worth spending any money getting it setup on gas?

Thanks in advance, James

 

[the snooper]

28 amp, great for bodywork and yes its worth getting gas, but not dispossible as they are too expensive to use

 

[rtbcomp]

You've done OK there by the looks of it.

It appears to have had a Eurotorch conversion, which would account for the new torch.

I'd replace the missing bolts holding the socket in place and fit a grommet round the lead that is currently connected to the -ve terminal.

What's the earth clamp like? If it's a large crocodile clip I'd replace that with something more substantial.

 

[Jay76]

You've done OK there by the looks of it.

It appears to have had a Eurotorch conversion, which would account for the new torch.

I'd replace the missing bolts holding the socket in place and fit a grommet round the lead that is currently connected to the -ve terminal.

What's the earth clamp like? If it's a large crocodile clip I'd replace that with something more substantial.

Here's the earth clamp would say it too has been changed at some point as it seems out of proportion to the thickness of the earth lead :

 

[rtbcomp]

That looks like a decent one. It's important that the earth connection to the workpiece is tight and clean.

 

[Jay76]

Can anyone recommend what type or mix of gas to purchase bearing in mind eventually i want to try and use it on car bodywork and what else would I need to connect gas to the welder?, I have taken the lid off and there looks to be a connector for a gas pipe on the inside of the torch connector if that makes any sense ?, sorry not to familiar with any technical phrases.

Also have just spoke to my dad it turns out that he mainly used stick welders as an engineer he says he has used mig welders in the past but they have always been setup ready for the job, and he has never used a hobby mig set so any tips would be most grateful.

 

[rtbcomp]

Trace the pipe back from the torch connector it should go to a gas solenoid, and from there to a connector on the regulator which is screwed onto the bottle.

If there isn't a pipe on the torch connector looks like the previous owner didn't get that far in the conversion!

Any chance of more pics, especially the rear of the torch connector and generally inside the box to see if there is a solenoid in there.

 

[Jay76]

Yeah I'll get some up in the next day or 2 as its packed away now the wife's home, there isn't a pipe coming from the back of the torch connection and not really sure what a solenoid looks like but didn't see anything that looked like it controlled gas or had gas pipe connectors on it.

 

[Jay76]

As promised here's some internal photos, here the inside if the torch connection with no pipes



I have googled mig welder solenoid picture and i can't see one inside my welder





Would it be much of a job finishing the conversion off?, and anyone have any ideas what I would need to get?

Thanks James

 

[rtbcomp]

OK, you've a bit of work to do if you want to use gas, perhaps the previous owner just wanted it to be gasless.

On the top picture there should be a plastic pipe from the small brass pipe to the outlet of the gas solenoid, the inlet of which connects to the output of the regulator, which attaches to the bottle.

The electrical side of the gas solenoid can be connected to the output of the main contactor, if there is one. This will be connected between the mains switch (output) and the power selector switches. You will need a 240v solenoid valve in this case.

We really need the circuit diagram

This might help

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=19084

 

[zardoz]

Dont worry too much if you cant go gasless with this little MIG. Sometimes flux wired MIGs can be a boon. Especially if working outside, if there is even a zepher of a breeze (us old timers can attest to that. even the best constructed wind break always lets gusts in to the weld zone) So your flux wired MIG might be a good thing if welding on the driveway like i often have to do

Maybe use it to lean the technique on and meanwhile save the pennis for a better welding set. But if you want to continue the gas conversion im sure some helpful folk on here will help if you are patient and expect to do some trial and error yourself.

With that earth clamp if i were you, I would run over the copper contact pieces with a file, then get hold of a clump of copper wire and litterally stuff it in to the clamp jaws, so that you have a larger surface area to contact on to your metal. Also dont forget to file or grind off any rust or scale on any surfaces you weld, so you get a good earth on the place you put the earth clamp. This is often the cause of poor welds for beginers, and if you dont know about it can be the cause of much hair tearing and returned welding machines that "dont work"

 

[Jay76]

OK, you've a bit of work to do if you want to use gas, perhaps the previous owner just wanted it to be gasless.

On the top picture there should be a plastic pipe from the small brass pipe to the outlet of the gas solenoid, the inlet of which connects to the output of the regulator, which attaches to the bottle.

The electrical side of the gas solenoid can be connected to the output of the main contactor, if there is one. This will be connected between the mains switch (output) and the power selector switches. You will need a 240v solenoid valve in this case.

We really need the circuit diagram

This might help

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=19084

I can't seem to find any info at all about this welder on the Internet so a circuit diagram maybe hard to find the thread link you put up says its been deleted when I click on it?, thanks again james

 

[Jay76]

Dont worry too much if you cant go gasless with this little MIG. Sometimes flux wired MIGs can be a boon. Especially if working outside, if there is even a zepher of a breeze (us old timers can attest to that. even the best constructed wind break always lets gusts in to the weld zone) So your flux wired MIG might be a good thing if welding on the driveway like i often have to do

Maybe use it to lean the technique on and meanwhile save the pennis for a better welding set. But if you want to continue the gas conversion im sure some helpful folk on here will help if you are patient and expect to do some trial and error yourself.

With that earth clamp if i were you, I would run over the copper contact pieces with a file, then get hold of a clump of copper wire and litterally stuff it in to the clamp jaws, so that you have a larger surface area to contact on to your metal. Also dont forget to file or grind off any rust or scale on any surfaces you weld, so you get a good earth on the place you put the earth clamp. This is often the cause of poor welds for beginers, and if you dont know about it can be the cause of much hair tearing and returned welding machines that "dont work"

It would mainly be used outside in the back garden learning and practising then hopefully one day working on the car on the driveway, I just thought it would be handy to have the choice of gas or gasless but didnt realise on how much more work would be involved in finishing the conversion.
Ill clean the earth clamp up, thanks for the tip!, also my dad seems to think it would be easier to learn with gas and then maybe switch to gasless after if the situation needed it.

 

[octo0072000]

better of learning with gas also better on car body work gasless is a bit fierce on thin stuff

 

[Exuptoy]

You can buy a gas solenoid for not much moolah and surely you can find a switched feed for the solenoid. There appears to be a small finder relay in the right hand side of the transformer compartment. Looks like the one below. Maybe you can see what it does and use its output to switch another for the gas sov.

http://www.tme.eu/en/details/40.52.9.024.000/miniature-electromagnetic-relays/finder/405290240000/

 

[Jay76]

You can buy a gas solenoid for not much moolah and surely you can find a switched feed for the solenoid. There appears to be a small finder relay in the right hand side of the transformer compartment. Looks like the one below. Maybe you can see what it does and use its output to switch another for the gas sov.

http://www.tme.eu/en/details/40.52.9.024.000/miniature-electromagnetic-relays/finder/405290240000/

That relay seem to be attached to wire speed, would that matter?

 

[mike 109444]

Jay should be less than £15 for parts. Can you post clearer pics of the area (pcb) that the white arrow points to as the pcb looks same as other Sealey machines that may have circuit for switching gas valve

 

[rtbcomp]

That relay on the motor speed board will most likely switch the feed motor on and off, if it comes after the speed control circuit you won't be able to use it for switching the solenoid valve.

If it was my machine I'd use a valve out of an old washing machine and connect it to a switched mains voltage as I outlined above.

 

[Jay76]

Jay should be less than £15 for parts. Can you post clearer pics of the area (pcb) that the white arrow points to as the pcb looks same as other Sealey machines that may have circuit for switching gas valve

Yes I'll post some up ASAP, thanks

 

[Jay76]

Jay should be less than £15 for parts. Can you post clearer pics of the area (pcb) that the white arrow points to as the pcb looks same as other Sealey machines that may have circuit for switching gas valve

Sorry about delay been Abit busy with work at the moment, here's the pics as requested :



And some close ups :





Don't know if that's any help?

Thanks jay