Newb looking for a Tig to weld Titanium

[Adamg1987]

As per title really I'm after a machine capable of welding Titanium and or Stainless. I'm new to welding but I do learn really quick especially with practical stuff so I aim to practice practise practise! What kind of things am I looking at in a machine?

Cheers

 

[eSCHEn]

Hi Adam and welcome

TIG is, broadly speaking, split into two kinds of machine: DC only and ACDC.

You need AC to do aluminium and another one which escapes my addled mind right now.
DC is for everything else.

What sort of budget have you got and do you prefer new or used?

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Titanium is a strange place to start, given the price of raw materials and rods it makes practicing from the word go a little expensive to say the least

 

[BigDan83]

You need AC to do aluminium and another one which escapes my addled mind right now.

Magnesium

 

[eSCHEn]

Magnesium

Thank you!

 

[hotrodder]

For Ti you need a DC TIG with HF start as a bare min. Even the cheapest of cheapnese tat with HF start will have adjustable post flow however at that end of the market many of them don't have adjustable pre flow time which is pretty important if welding Ti without a inert weld chamber/tent
Pulse is a useful feature for keeping the heat input low on thin stuff but not as important as cleanliness and quality of gas shielding with Ti

While Ti isn't difficult to weld if everything is clean and well shielded* you need to be a good hand first as contaminating the weld with the tungsten is gonna be far less trivial and more expensive with structural Ti work as at welding temps Ti can be embrittled by most things... mild steel is the place to nail the basics before progressing to stainless which is a bit less forgiving and will introduce purging techniques. Once you're capable of producing quality stainless welds, repeatably, in a variety of positions without tagging tungstens regularly switching to Ti will be relatively painless, it's not that different to stainless to weld just a LOT loss forgiving of mistakes and a LOT more expensive

* While you can often get by with just a huuuuge gas lens ceramic and a purge to protect the back of the joint it oftens limits weld length before you have to stop briefly or risk discolouring/embrittling the weld. For something like a bicycle frame this isn't that big of a deal due to the types of joint. For butt welds running a third argon line for a 'trailing cup' is a better solution but obviously doesn't lend itself so well to tube-tube fillet welds
Welding chambers/glove boxes are a common solution but lend themselves more to production work i.e. while they improve gas shielding they're expensive to purge & fill for a one off/small job but if they're big enough for a bunch of small parts...

 

[eSCHEn]

So say you got the mild and stainless down hr, what would be a good starting point for Ti in terms of stock and filler type and sizes? I've seen a lot of rather cryptically named stuff - bit of a minefield after stainless :S

 

[Screwdriver]

Thank you!

I don't think you will!

 

[hotrodder]

Common flavours for bits of sports equipment and automotive stuff would probably be grade 2 / CP2 (aka ERTi-2 for filler wire) which is one of several commercially pure grades, grade 5 (6Al-4V aka ERTi-5 for wire) & grade 9 (3Al-2.5V). Things like bicycle frames commonly use a mix of the later 2 flavours, grade 9 tube and grade 5 machined bits
If you're wanting to make something from the stuff then cp2 is a LOT easier to work with than grade 5 as it's kinda (very crudely) similar 304 stainless but lighter. Annealed grade 5 is harder and stronger than normalised chromoly but like all flavours of Ti 'springy' compared to steels. While it obviously affects mechanical properties filler wire can be undermatched so can weld grade 5 using ERTI-2 wire for example. As with other materials sometimes this can be a good idea (thin wall 4130 or T45 tube, fillet welds using er70s-2 mild steel wire for example) for ductility/toughness other times not.
Only bother with smaller diameter filler wires, the wire tends to stick to the weldpool anyway so i can't see trying to use some 2.4 wire would ever be much fun and i doubt you'd be able to snip the end of some 2.4mm grade 5 wire using a typical pair of side cutters either!

 

[Adamg1987]

Thanks everyone for all your input ill take what youve said on board ill start off with stainless. I was looking at the R-TECH Tig 161 would this be suitable for both Stainless and Ti

 

[Richard.]

I've just learnt more about Titanium in the last ten mins than ever. I'd really love to give it a try my self as it simply looks stunning welded up. My biggest cup size is an no 8 so if I was to have a go I'd need to invest in a no 12 and a trail? This thread has got me curious now. HR have you got any nice pics (torch set up with trail and any ti welding you've done)

Adam,
Regards the welder I would assume so, the rtechs seem to cover the requirements HR stated. Pre/post flow , HF start DC. As your looking at an acdc Alu is also in your options.
Why start off with stainless if your trying things out. Although it's no where near titanium money, SS is still not cheap. Best to buy your self a length of 50x3 flat steel. Linish it bright and master the basics. Exotic metals are an expensive way to get used to machine/process.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

What is titanium like to weld amps wise, is it like stainless , requiring less or Ali, requiring more heat? I used to love watching the ti welders doing the gun carriages in RO, don't ask me what grade of ti it was though, although if I knew I doubt I could legally tell you anyways!

 

[eSCHEn]

Well I was going to get you some Ti to play with Richard, as a small thank you for all the help you've given me but at a fiver for two foot of 1mm filler rod it will be imagination titanium I'm afraid ^_~

 

[Rrunnach]

I nailed Ti, many years ago, was stuff for British Oceanics, anyone remember their base at Leith docks, early days of O&G, where their Pisces series, mini submersibles, with diver lock-out, were based? Most famous is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Roger_Mallinson_and_Roger_Chapman

Now resting down south at a sealife centre, no doubt Ti removed!

 

[Tinbasherdan]

I nailed Ti, many years ago, was stuff for British Oceanics, anyone remember their base at Leith docks, early days of O&G, where their Pisces series, mini submersibles, with diver lock-out, were based? Most famous is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Roger_Mallinson_and_Roger_Chapman

Now resting down south at a sealife centre, no doubt Ti removed!

Interestingly my mam and dad know them, and the sub was finally raised on their wedding day, the vicar announced her recovery during the service.

 

[Rrunnach]

Interesting and, what a coincidence. These guys had nerves of steel. Pisces V was their biggest, I did a fair bit of fab/weld on her.

 

[hotrodder]

Buying welding rods in individual lengths is crazy spendy but the stuff doesn't have to be although obviously buying in quantity isn't much help to just have a play/experiment with Ti. Currently there's a UK based welding supplier with a listing for ERTi-2 1.6mm wire on the bay, £52 for 0.5kg delivered isn't that spendy given it's around half density of steels i.e. quantity wise similar number of lengths to 1kg of stainless. Bit on the thick side given most of the offcuts on the bay are 1mm or thinner, some Ti wire intended for jewelry/model making on the other hand... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Titanium-...-1-6mm-/221839543727?var=&hash=item33a6aacdaf a 5m coil of 0.8mm grade 1 is a fiver

I've just learnt more about Titanium in the last ten mins than ever. I'd really love to give it a try my self as it simply looks stunning welded up. My biggest cup size is an no 8 so if I was to have a go I'd need to invest in a no 12 and a trail? This thread has got me curious now. HR have you got any nice pics (torch set up with trail and any ti welding you've done)

Haven't got any pics of anything nice i've made, most of the Ti jobs i've done (and i don't work with it regularly) are repairs. Somewhere on the forum is a pic of a quick test weld done a small offcut to check settings/gas shielding
If you keep weld length shortish can get by without a trailing shield. Especially when playing about to get a feel for the stuff. A large gas lens with a #12 is a good idea and useful for other stuff too as they don't need massive flow rates to work. I still haven't gotten around to making a 'proper' trailing shield as i usually ending up doing fiddly little things where they aren't much use so it's more usual for me to cobble stuff together as needed... getting creative with cooking foil, chunks of ally with grooves milled/routed in them for combination heat sinks & purging blocks. For small parts a 'purge box' is handy, example here http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/gas-shielding.html can't remember who i stole the idea from but it was slightly different to that one in that the perforated top was recessed a bit so argon can pool in it rather spill over the edges although it's obviously easy enough to clamp/tape some sheet around it

What is titanium like to weld amps wise, is it like stainless , requiring less or Ali, requiring more heat?

Very similar to stainless, slightly higher melting temp but lower thermal conductivity

 

[Paul G]

Titanium is a strange place to start, given the price of raw materials and rods it makes practicing from the word go a little expensive to say the least

Like Dan I feel you are trying to run before you can walk.

However, you had best add to the equation the cost of the gas.
Minimum requirement is going to be a size "W" from BOC and the reg and flow meters, probably three, and a manifold
or "Y" pieces.


Torch will need a 10 or bigger ceramic with a multi layer lens. Not single layer cheapanese rubbish, although I have used
with great success a conventional ceramic stuffed with stainless wire wool.
You will need the wool to pack any followers that you will need to make anyway.

Ah! Nearly forgot. You will need a huge jar of patience.


Good luck

Paul G