Newbee needs help!

[San Migweld]

Hi folks

I am learning to arc weld as I need to do a job on a classic car and want to replicate the original process. (yes this WAS arc welded originally!)

I need to overlap weld 16swg steel panels but the top sheet burns away before it penetrates through to the second sheet.

I am using a Clarke Easy Arc 115N with Clarke 6013 rods. (2.5 and 3.25)

Tricky job but needs to be done this way so any advice would be most welcome

Cheers

 

[oilcooled :)]

well if you are arc welding thin sheet, you need to be able WELD, not starting off on sheet, you need good quality rods, a good welding machine either a dc machine or if its a ac it really needs a high ocv terminal(80v instead of the bog standard 50v which you have), eg, pickhill or oxford or olympic oil cooled sets
after that you may need a heat sink, i can be done tho, cud do it with my eyes closed now

 

[keith19]

Chop your rods in half while learning, you'll find they wobble around a lot less. Just clean up the fluxed ends where they go in the torch.

Just start off by laying a few straight line weld beads on something thicker, as said above. When you can do this okay you can move down to 2mm or 1.6mm (16 gauge) metal. To start with only use the 2.5 rods on this thin stuff, don't bother with bigger ones. Even with a 2.5 you have to move smartly on 16 gauge. (We used to use 1.6 mm rods on 16 gauge, but these tend to wobble about, leave a really thin bead, and take getting used to, and a lot of buzz-box welders won't run them properly).

When you can weld straight on 16 gauge without blowing through, you can look at trying a lap joint or so. Concentrate on the bottom plate, as if you were doing your practice straight line, and just swing sideways onto the top plate and off again, continuously in a series of little curves or zig-zags. You need lots of practice on this to get it good. Pay particular attention to the angles of the rod; it's easy to blast the top plate away if your angles are out. You'll get a feel for it after a while. Helps a lot if you have a mate who can weld, though.

Read up on the arc welding techniques section on here, then get in some regular practice, maybe watch a few arc welding movies, too. As said above, it can be done, but takes time and persistence to learn well.

 

[cumbriasteve]

What car is it exactly? and why is it important to replicate the exact welding method?...although I do realise restoration has many levels of commitment to accuracy, is this one of them?

 

[San Migweld]

Thanks for the advice chaps!

Just to be clear I am practacing on some scrap metal and not learning "on the job"!

I do have some 2.0 rods and will try to see if they are better but it sounds to me like lots of practace and even more patience and I should get there in the end

 

[arceyered]

Hello San migweld
Just out of interest what make is the car ?

 

[San Migweld]

Hello San migweld
Just out of interest what make is the car ?

Hi Its a Sunbeam

 

[Wozzaaah]

Why on earth would you want to make the job more difficult than it should be by using an arc welder?
You probably won't 'get there in the end', you'll most likely fail miserably and get very frustrated.
Get a mig welder, learn to use it....job done.

 

[bigtip]

got to agree with that.

i guess you will be using modern tools and new materials on the rebuild so if the new tyres or brake pads or paint that you put on are better than the originals and don't look out of place then that's cool.

 

[gavuk]

Can't say I've ever seen arc welding on a vehicle,can you post some pictures please ,as others have said mig is far easier in most cases,I would have expected gas welding not arc welding on the car originally?

 

[San Migweld]

Why on earth would you want to make the job more difficult than it should be by using an arc welder?
You probably won't 'get there in the end', you'll most likely fail miserably and get very frustrated.
Get a mig welder, learn to use it....job done.

I have a MIG welder and know how to use it thanks and we will see if I fail miserably?

The point is to re create how the work was carried out orginally and that is important on this car!

 

[Wozzaaah]

Arc welding thin stuff is notoriously difficult which is why we suggest mig over arc. Most attempts we've seen on here really have been dismal.
Arc welding has it's place and I love it but for some things you just can't beat the simplicity of 'point and squirt' mig welding.
What makes you think the car was originally arc welded? It's just not something I've ever hear of either.

 

[keith19]

I think some car chassis were arc welded, in the days between the 1940's and the mid-1960's, by which time monocoque or unitary construction was coming in big-time, and the thickness of frame metal decreased considerably, and mig was becoming widespread in industry.

Even on the unitary construction Morris Minor, I can well remember some garages using arc to replace floor pans and x-members, which were about 18 and 16 gauge respectively. It was not a nice job, especially inside the confines of the vehicle, and we had to do it in short runs; stitch about an inch (25 mm), leave 50 mm, do another 25, etc. No continuous seams them days!
A 1.6 mm rod was used if you could get on with them, otherwise a 2 or 2.5, the latter heeled over a bit to take the heat away and moved pretty quickly. But these were repairs by small garages, generally when the gas plant was being used on something else. It was a bit quicker than gas, but gas made a much nicer job, with little or no clean-up required.

 

[Paul.]

Some parts of the chassis on big Healeys were stick welded, quality of the welding was suspect to say the least, we always re welded them with mig when restoring them.

 

[San Migweld]

Some parts of the chassis on big Healeys were stick welded, quality of the welding was suspect to say the least, we always re welded them with mig when restoring them.

Yes Paul Jenson Motors had the contract to build the big Healey bodies and were responsible for the poor stick welding! They did the same to my car when doing the conversions from Alpine to Tigers. It is very important to see this awful work as there are many fake Tigers around which usually get spotted due to their much neater welding!

I may MIG then ARC over to get the finish?