Newbie fillet weld HEEELLLP

[Jaay]

Hi all, im a novice arc welder. I seem ok on normal flat welds, joining two pieces together but these damn fillet weld are proving very difficult to get right. im either welding to one side or the other and never in the 'V' of the joint. Im guessing its just something basic im doing wrong, ive got some good electrodes 1.6mm using on 16swg steel at about 40/45v. please check out my picture of my miserable fail

 

[rich r]

Firstly welcome!

Secondly - as a novice welder, forget 1.6mm rods. They take a fair amount of practice to get right as they burn down quickly and have a lot of flux compared to metal. Stick to 2.5mm or even 3.2mm on metal 3mm or thicker until you master the techniques, then attempt thinner metal with thinner rods. 16SWG (1.6mm) is really too thin for arc welding unless you're either lucky or a master of the art Mig is far more suitable when working with metal thinner than 2.5mm.

Thirdly - make sure the metal is very clean, and try a bit more current - 50-55A maybe. Not sure if you mean 40-45A - arc welding is constant current, you can't really set a working voltage as it'll change depending on the length of the arc. Keep the arc short -with those rods you'll probably find it easier to rest the rod at about 60 degrees and drag it along resting on the flux coating rather than hover it over at 90 degrees - that way the arc stays nice and consistent and short, at the expense of a bit less penetration and more splatter.

 

[shenion]

Smaller rods you need to drag or you will get slag inclusions as there is more flux than metal being deposited. You will need to up the weld current unless you are using a cheap buzz box.

As Rich said, 1.6mm rods are difficult. I find 2mm are easier to use even on thin stuff. I find the 1.6mm need to run real hot to work right and keep the slag flowing; might as well use a bigger rod.

Once the arc moves to one side, that side gets hot and the arc is drawn to it. Dragging prevents the arc from wandering and keeps the arc under the flux. Small 6013's, the rod melts faster than the flux, so even when dragging, you still have a considerable arc length.

Straight welds are easier as the flux has room to flow away.

If you have a DC set, play with polarity. It lets you play with penetration vs keeping the slag hot.

 

[Jaay]

Firstly welcome!

Secondly - as a novice welder, forget 1.6mm rods. They take a fair amount of practice to get right as they burn down quickly and have a lot of flux compared to metal. Stick to 2.5mm or even 3.2mm on metal 3mm or thicker until you master the techniques, then attempt thinner metal with thinner rods. 16SWG (1.6mm) is really too thin for arc welding unless you're either lucky or a master of the art Mig is far more suitable when working with metal thinner than 2.5mm.

Thirdly - make sure the metal is very clean, and try a bit more current - 50-55A maybe. Not sure if you mean 40-45A - arc welding is constant current, you can't really set a working voltage as it'll change depending on the length of the arc. Keep the arc short -with those rods you'll probably find it easier to rest the rod at about 60 degrees and drag it along resting on the flux coating rather than hover it over at 90 degrees - that way the arc stays nice and consistent and short, at the expense of a bit less penetration and more splatter.

all my other welds with these sticks are good,its just these fillet joints i don't seem to be getting the stick into the right position.

 

[Jaay]

Smaller rods you need to drag or you will get slag inclusions. You will need to up the weld current unless you are using a cheap buzz box.

As Rich said, 1.6mm rods are difficult. I find 2mm are easier to use even on thin stuff. I find the 1.6mm need to run real hot to work right and keep the slag flowing; might as well use a bigger rod.

Once the arc moves to one side, that side gets hot and the arc is drawn to it. Dragging prevents the arc from wandering. Small 6013's, the rod melts faster than the flux, so even when dragging, you still have a considerable arc length.

If you have a DC set, play with polarity. It lets you play with penetration vs keeping the slag hot.

i believe its an old buzz box a sip150. i appreciate the advice ill give it a go and get back to you.

 

[rich r]

Try a bit more current and dragging - if it's no better, try 2mm rods at 55A (if you've got some). Maybe practice on thicker metal which will be more forgiving than that thin box section, as you can move more slowly ensuring the weld pool forms properly and penetrates into the steel. Watch the pool and see how it moves as you move the rod. Then try again on the box section - is the pool doing the same thing?

I have managed to weld 2mm steel with 2.5mm rods on a similar buzzbox many times - it's a matter of moving smoothly and quickly so you don't burn through.

 

[wheresmejumper]

make sure your rod is at 45 degrees,and pointing exactly at the centre of the joint.
you got a worm hole in the pic,increase the amps a bit

 

[BrokenBiker]

up the amps, keep the tightest arc you can (drag it) and stay dead centre on the joint and 45 degrees.

I would opt to practice with at least 2.5mm rods on 3-4mm metal though as the smaller rods are harder to run than the bigger ones

 

[PTvor]

1.6mm rods may not be recommended by the maker for vertical even if the other thicknesses in the range are. Check the packet or the data sheet. If you are trying to get the rods to do something the maker doesn't recommend them for you're on dodgy ground.

In any case they are harder to use as others have said. You need less amps for vertical and a buzz box may not go down that low. Also 16SWG is 1.6mm and geting very difficult for arc. It's really a natural for MIG, which is probably why you don't see 1.6mm ard rods around that much these days.

You could also try doing vertical down. On thick material it's just a wash but in thinner material you don't need the penetration and it can work better.

Do you need to do a vertical weld anyway? Very often you can position the work so that you are doing the weld on the flat and gravity helps rather than causes problems.

 

[rich r]

I'm not sure he is trying to do a vertical - just that the photo's the wrong way up

 

[PTvor]

In that case I'd try a touch technique with the 1.6mm rods pushing into the angle, or do as Scott says and try 2mm rods, which often work very well for thin steel and aren't so hard to use.

 

[DIYNUT]

Hi. From the photo I would say that you have the amps set a little low. I wouldn't pay too much attantion to the recomended ampage as the power to the arc itself is affected by several factors that can be difficult to control. The best way to handle is to set up a test piece first and then start low and gradually increase the ampage until you can maintain an arc. As a new welder you will probably tend to use higher ampage than is really necessary. This can have a detremental effect on the weld strength but provided you don't start to see lots of little bubble marks in the top of the weld you should be ok. If you do see these you have the ampage set too high. I would persevere with the 1.6 as you will find you have more flexibility on the ampage. Larger rods tend to burn through easier as you need more power/ampage to establish the arc. Lastly for normal welding don't 'drag' the rod. As a rule of thumb you should try to maintain an arc gap approximately equal to the thickness of the metal bit of the rod. This is bit that makes arc welding difficult but if you persevere you will find it doesn't take too long to learn. Hope you find this useful.

 

[rich r]

We're only suggesting dragging for 1.6mm and 2.0mm rods - where the flux coating isn't that dissimilar to the correct arc length. It's a technique that's been used for small rod diameters for decades, and works well.

But yes, for 2.5mm and above, keeping the rod tip off the work so the correct arc length is maintained is essential.

 

[PTvor]

Besides which some 6013s 2.5mm and over, you can drag and are sold as touch rods, and others, especially out and out positional rods with thin flux, you really have to be able to maintain an arc.

 

[DIYNUT]

The problem with dragging the rod is that you lose control over the weld pool. It's also difficult to get any decent penetration as you have to move the weld along quite quickly to stop the rod sticking. I'm assuming that the new user is using all purpose positional rods. Looking at the picture again 'dragging' could well be the cause of the problem he is having currently. Additionally unless he is going to turn the whole frame over for each weld he will end up welding at least some welds vertically and touch and drag just isn't an option there. In the end, it's up to our new user to tryout all the advice and then make use of what appears to work for him the best.