Newbie questions

[Madcowz]

Good evening.

I was given an Olympic Bantam 180A a while back and have finally got round to trying to learn to weld with it and am having all manner of problems.

The Bantam has two terminals, one 80v one 50v. I am using the 80v one and have the amps set at around 65

I am using 6mm angle bar which I have ground so that it is shiny and clean, I'm using 4mm Fincord M 6013 sticks as that is what I have in the box and then it all goes horribly wrong!

First off I have great trouble striking an arc and spend most of my time wresting two handed trying to pull the stick off the bar, one particularly sticky stick was so hard to pull off I yanked it hard and the piece of thinner angle bar that I had badly stuck on (notice I didn't use the word weld) came off and whacked me across the back of the head. My how I laugh now

I read that upping the amps helps with this and when I increased them (up to about 90) it made it easier to strike and maintain it. But I then find that all I am doing is making big blobs of weld with splatter going absolutely everywhere and I can't get it to flow in a line. The rod runs down so quickly I have trouble feeding it in fast enough and it looks horrible.

When I dropped the amps down to 50 there was much less splatter and I managed to produce this:

But, I just don't have a clue what amps I should be using, how close the stick should be, what angle etc etc. I have read through the Arc Welding Library and picked up loads of tips but could really do with a recommendation of beginners settings to start me off.

Many thanks

 

[Paul.]

Hi, 65 amps is much too low for a 4mm electrode, for learning you would be better off getting some 2.5 E6013 electrodes, run them at about 90 amps, If you must use 4mm then start at around 130 amps.
Have a look through this thread for some tips on technique.

 

[Madcowz]

Thanks Paul.

Just to really show my stupidity (first of many). The diameter of these rods... is it the electrode inside or the flux coating?

It is just that I have found a box of 4mm rods and they are huge, the 6013 I have been using do say 2.5mm on the box but when I measured the diameter of them (including the flux) it was 4mm so I assumed they were 4mm.

 

[Welderpaul]

Rod diameter refers to the diameter of the electrode. The overall diameter can vary depending on the type of flux used. Some have a heavy coating, some light.
As Paul says a 2.5mm rod should be run at 90ish amps.

 

[nfinch86]

Confusing Question ??

Good evening.

I was given an Olympic Bantam 180A a while back and have finally got round to trying to learn to weld with it and am having all manner of problems.

The Bantam has two terminals, one 80v one 50v. I am using the 80v one and have the amps set at around 65

I am using 6mm angle bar which I have ground so that it is shiny and clean, I'm using 4mm Fincord M 6013 sticks as that is what I have in the box and then it all goes horribly wrong!

First off I have great trouble striking an arc and spend most of my time wresting two handed trying to pull the stick off the bar, one particularly sticky stick was so hard to pull off I yanked it hard and the piece of thinner angle bar that I had badly stuck on (notice I didn't use the word weld) came off and whacked me across the back of the head. My how I laugh now

I read that upping the amps helps with this and when I increased them (up to about 90) it made it easier to strike and maintain it. But I then find that all I am doing is making big blobs of weld with splatter going absolutely everywhere and I can't get it to flow in a line. The rod runs down so quickly I have trouble feeding it in fast enough and it looks horrible.

When I dropped the amps down to 50 there was much less splatter and I managed to produce this:

But, I just don't have a clue what amps I should be using, how close the stick should be, what angle etc etc. I have read through the Arc Welding Library and picked up loads of tips but could really do with a recommendation of beginners settings to start me off.

Many thanks

Hello Madcowz; I really don't Know where to begin??

First, If your Rod Sticks so bad , as you say, Just remove it from the rod holder. Then break it Off.
Secondly , I will have to give you Advice in terms I know ( Not Metric )
4mm ? I think that would be a 1/8"- 5/32" Welding Rod. For 6013 ( junk Rods ) start at 105 Amps. for 1/8" rods and for 5/32" rods use at least 125-135 Amps.
Try to keep the rod at approx. 1/8" gap & about 75* / from Vertical in the direction of travel !

I Hope this helps !! The rod size is the Steel Part inserted into the Rod Holder ( Stinger )

............. Norm
www.NormsMobileWelding.Blogspot.com

 

[Madcowz]

Ok,

thanks for all your replies guys. I am indeed using 2.5mm 6013 rods and not 4mm as I previously thought

I turned it up to 90 Amps and found it much easier to strike the arc and maintain it although sometimes I would be bumbling along and it would just die on me. Too close/too far, I have no idea.

Here is my 2nd attempt:

I must admit that it is either splattering less or I am more chilled about it and don't notice it so much any more.

The slag often takes a good clout with a hammer to get it off, although on one or two attempts it did start to crack in places on its own, but I have no idea what I did differently.

My problem is that everything seems to be happening so quickly that I can't keep up. I am having to feed the stick in so fast and can't see much behind the stick although I did manage to see a pool next to the stick which was a certain colour and then the rest of it was slightly higher and a different colour but beyond that, this is all voodoo magic to me.

I can't keep my travel steady and my hand shakes like I was drinking heavily the night before even when using two hands and resting it on something.

I think I need to sit and watch some videos to see how to do it.

Also, can anyone recommend a good auto darkening helmet that is going to stop me going blind but not cost too much as I really am a DIY only once in a while type person. Although I do own a Land Rover so I may get more practice than I bargained for

thanks again.

 

[shenion]

Looks a bit cold. Could be the metal is thick.

Lots of spatter, probably too long an arc length. 2.5mm rods like a short arc gap. The flux burns slower than the rod, so there is already half the desired arc length inside the rod. I often drag them; especially on inside corners. Note, if you drag them you will have to up the current a bit.

You want a 1-2mm gap between the weld pool and the end of the rod. The rule "arc gap equal to rod diameter" only applies to 3mm and above for 6013's.

If the rod is burning fast, the current may be a bit high, but also may be due to a longer arc length.

A bit tall. Holding the rod nearer to vertical will flatten them a bit.

I wish I could suggest a current setting, but my welder just has a dial marked 0-10, so no real correlation to actual amps.

 

[GeorgeB]

Here is my 2nd attempt:

I'd say you're making fair progress, at least compared to my quite steep learning curve. Arc welding is not so easy, is it? That's a good welding machine you have there. On thicker metal you should probably be using the 50v setting, though, according to the guidance given in the era when those oil immersed welders were in their hay day.

I don't know why you have so much splatter, though. I use el-cheapo rods and I don't get that much splatter.

With a bit more practice I'm sure you'll get it sussed. Rod sticking and the need to knock off slag are frequently the norm with arc welding, unless you're a real expert, which I certainly am not!

 

[Tino]

Those runs don't look to bad, I think all you need do is burn lots more rods. You will get better and more confident and the shakes will ease up. The 80 volt setting would usually be used for more difficult to use rods (some lo hydrogen rods are difficult to strike and lose the arc easily, 80v keeps it going) and 50 volts for 6013's 6011's. If the arc just dies you have probably got to far away, keeping a tight arc will reduce the spatter to. And don't panic, even the best of us stick a rod or two now n then.

 

[Arsonista]

Madcowz, some of those welds don't look too bad. Move on to joining two pieces together, and don't panic. The shakes and holding your breath will pass with practice. That's what you need to do now. get some 6013's and burn them. If Tino sticks a rod now and then, there's hope for all of us. Good luck.

 

[Madcowz]

Day 3 in the Big Brother Welding House
and I think I have improved?

Thanks for all your feedback, it really helps as I struggle to get to grips with this alien hot fizzing splattering bright thing in my hand and I am hanging on every word.

I am still at 90Amps and keeping the rod a lot tighter in and so far it hasn't gone all crackly and died on me so at least that is one improvement.

I am still finding that my hand jerks and my welds go in fits and starts but that will come with practice. I must admit that I am so much more confident now than at the start of the week and I can see improvement in my style if not the results.

All the slags were so much easier to get off and some of them even started to crack and lift on their own. A big difference from yesterday when I was belting 7 shades of guano out of them.

I am still finding the rods a bit splatterly. They are decent ones but have sat in my outhouse for 4 years and goodness knows where before so they may be past their prime?

I also cut two bits of 3mm angle bar and joined them edge on to each other and then welded this to the 6mm bar and for the first time they stuck despite me hitting them as hard as I could with a hammer. A first for me as everything else has always just fallen off after a light tap or even a strong gust of wind

I'm trying to get in touch with weldequip as I need a decent auto helmet, new leads and some more rods and am yet to find a decent welding outlet near me (Dorking/Horsham area).

thanks,

 

[malcolm]

Look fine to me (should put my cards on the table and say I'm also a beginner with arc). From there I found doing joints between 2 sheets very much more informative - you can check the penetration looks good.

Hammer is no test. Put the joint in a vice and work it backwards and forwards until it breaks. If the metal breaks away from the weld it's a good sign.

Might be worth heating some of the old rods in an oven to be on the safe side given the spatter. Over 100 degrees for 30 minutes ought to dry them out. Arc is more spattery than any other welding process.

 

[shenion]

Looks much better.

Yes, as you improve, the slag falls off easier. A rough weld will hold onto the slag; especially on the edges. when you get more comfortable with it, you will get better feedback on what you are seeing and hearing. I can usuall hear when the arc is too long or current too high. Arc starts getting harsh.

Looks good, maybe a bit faster forward travel, looks real close. Congrats, you are on your way The second half of the lower weld looks real good.

I have been doing arc for over a year. Still learning. Don't do a lot of it so every time I go back, it takes a bit to get the "feel" back.

 

[Tino]

Malcolm is right, if you have had the rods for some time warming and drying them will defiantly help with both spatter and how they run. Defiantly improved, well done.

 

[pedrobedro]

I keep my rods in the bathroom airing cupboard next to the tank. Down at the yard we used to have a wooden box with a light fitting in it and an old type 40 watt bulb in there which was lit all the time. It generated enough heat to keep the rods dry.

 

[tombardier]

I'm quite new to it all as well, but I can say that practice makes perfect, and so do two videos named Arc Welding 1 & 2 with Steve Bleile. They helped me immensely. I can help you get them if you want (DVDs available on fleabay or 'other' formats).

 

[nfinch86]

Big improvement !!!

Hello, Yes greatly Improved from your first Welds !!

I'm also new to Welding, Well Not Quite I've been Welding Professionally since " 1967 " 42yrs. & still learning Every Day !!

Keep - Up the Good Work, Looks Better every day !!

.............. Norm :

www.NormsMobileWelding.Blogspot.com

 

[Madcowz]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I collected a trailer full of scrap from one of my customers as the weekend but have run out of rods so trying to get some more in before I can practice further.

regards.

 

[busa]

Hello, Yes greatly Improved from your first Welds !!

I'm also new to Welding, Well Not Quite I've been Welding Professionally since " 1967 " 42yrs. & still learning Every Day !!

Keep - Up the Good Work, Looks Better every day !!

.............. Norm :

www.NormsMobileWelding.Blogspot.com

nfinch86.

another finch here, I started just a little behind you in 1970, 39 yrs and also still learning !

Madcowz.

You're definitely getting to grips with stick welding, the pics above show some good beads, if anything the speed of travel is a little slow but that will come with practice. Look at the leading edge of the weld pool and note the shape of it, any increase or decrease in the speed of travel will cause the pool to change shape, your aim should be to keep the pool shape consistent. As someone else mentioned, you can also learn quite a lot about what is happening in the weld by listening to the arc, changes in arc length will result in changes to the sounds it makes. One final tip is to relax your grip on the rod holder, it should just lay in your hand with only sufficient grip to hold it there and no more, a relaxed grip will give you smoother arc strikes and much more control over the rod.

 

[nfinch86]

Many Finch's in Canada Also !!!

nfinch86.

another finch here, I started just a little behind you in 1970, 39 yrs and also still learning !

Madcowz.

You're definitely getting to grips with stick welding, the pics above show some good beads, if anything the speed of travel is a little slow but that will come with practice. Look at the leading edge of the weld pool and note the shape of it, any increase or decrease in the speed of travel will cause the pool to change shape, your aim should be to keep the pool shape consistent. As someone else mentioned, you can also learn quite a lot about what is happening in the weld by listening to the arc, changes in arc length will result in changes to the sounds it makes. One final tip is to relax your grip on the rod holder, it should just lay in your hand with only sufficient grip to hold it there and no more, a relaxed grip will give you smoother arc strikes and much more control over the rod.

Hello; So Your Surname is Finch also, My relatives came to Canada in 1797
after the American Revolution from South Carolina . Prior to that they go back to Great Briton !!

.......... Norm

www.NormsMobileWelding.Blogspot.com