Newbie to spray painting

[anto]

Planning on doing a few repairs to some panels on my Peugeot 306.
Its nile blue which is a metallic colour.

Having read up on the 2k paints and the possible health risks and not able to provide an aux air supply for a mask id like to obviously stick to cellulose for base coat? and was going to get the upol 1k as it seems to be highly regarded.
Is this feasible? Can i get metallic colours in cellulose?

Another relatively simple question is can i use one gun for primer, base and clearcoats?

My compressor is smallish so il only ever be doing a panel at a time.

thanks in advance
Anton

 

[steveo3002]

no base coats are 2 pack ...the nasty stuff is in the 2k primer /clear coat

 

[anto]

Steveo are you saying base coats are all 2 pack or that no base coats are 2 pack?

 

[grim_d]

no base coats are 2 pack ...the nasty stuff is in the 2k primer /clear coat

Apart from 2k base coats, of course.

 

[anto]

Lads you's have got me completely confuzzled now!? lol

Can you get 2k base coats?
Will 1k clear work with 2k base coats?
Do metallic colours come in non 2k base coats?

 

[steveo3002]

the 2 pack bit refers to stuff with a hardner ..no base coats use hardner its just the paint and thinners

its the hardner thats the big health issue so 2 k primer , solid colours and clear that you need to worry about

im probably confusing you more now lol

 

[pedrobedro]

You can get metallic base coat in cellulose, I used it to repair my bike tank.

 

[grim_d]

You can get 2k base but they have generally been replaced by water based, I would assume you could use a 1k clear over 2k but if you were set up to spray 2k then why waste time with the 1k?

To answer your questions (to the best of my ability)

You can get some metallics in cellulose, check with your supplier, you would use cellulose clear over this I assume.

1k clear will go over the water based, albeit they are not as good as the dangerous 2k clears.

You can use the same gun provided it is thoroughly cleaned between stages, especially if you go from water to solvent based, ideally you want to use separate guns but that's not always feasible.

Hope this helps.

 

[tux]

My opinion for what its worth.
Basecoats are thinned with 2K thinner, but are not 2K per se. The nasty Isocyanate stuff that causes the health issues in 2K paints is part of the hardener that is added to the paint, the paint itself is relatively "safe." The hardener is not needed for basecoats.
1k clearcoat will happily sit on top of basecoat. I use it myself as I don't want to get involved with 2K paint.
Metallics are usually only available in basecoat, though a very limited few are still available in cellulose. I find it easier to use bc/cc than celly anyway.
In your situation I would be using basecoat mixed to your correct colour and a 1K clear over the top. Not as hard wearing as 2K, but then nowhere near as nasty either. Its a compromise, but one that I am happy with.
Some will say that you should have separate guns for primer, colour and clear coats, but personally I am happy to use the same gun and make sure it is cleaned thoroughly between coats. You may want to get a larger tip setup for your gun if you are using a high build primer though as it needs a bit more space, maybe a 1.8mm. Then a smaller setup, perhaps 1.4mm for colour and lacquer. Having said that, I have happily sprayed high build with 1.3mm tip before.

 

[anto]

My opinion In your situation I would be using basecoat mixed to your correct colour and a 1K clear over the top. Not as hard wearing as 2K, but then nowhere near as nasty either. Its a compromise, but one that I am happy with..

One that i would be happy with as well. I have mild asthma already so il stay away from the 2k clearcoats

Thanks all ive got my head aorund it now.

2k primer is fine to use as well as it won't have any hardner?

 

[grim_d]

2k primer I have used in the past required hardener that contained isocyanate.

May have been some confusion on "base coats", I generally regard any colour coat that would come before lacquer (even if lacquer is not required, such as solid colour 2k) as a base coat.

Tux, I've never sprayed metallics, but always assumed that the colour coat (base) would also require hardener unless it was water based, in which case it's thinned with water, is this not the case, the metallic base coat is just thinned with xylene and applied without hardener?

 

[anto]

Surely a primer coat would not need hardener as it is not subject to the atmosphere or any contact? Is it not just there to give the colour coat something to adhere to and also to provide a uniform colour so as not to distort the main colour coat?

 

[grim_d]

2k primer needs hardener, it would be 1k if not.

Without hardener it would not dry correctly.

 

[anto]

Im sorry im even more confused now....

I want to be able to spray primer, colour/base and clear coats without needing an air fed mask and without damaging my health.

Can you point me at what type of paints i need?

Thanks

 

[grim_d]

In your case I would maybe go for...

synthetic, cellulose or even aerosol primer

water based base coat (the colour metallic coat)

1k clear.

Only thing is I'm not sure how water based will react over the top of those primers so hopefully somebody else can advise.

Why don't you pop down your local paint supply shop and ask their advice?, my shop are very friendly and helpful, explain to them that you don't have an air fed mask and they will surely point you in the right direction.

 

[anto]

Will do Grim_d, i just thought id ask in here so at least i had some knowledge of what i was talking about.
Now that you mention aerosol primer ive used it to good effect it was always the clear coat that gave me a crap finish.

Thanks all

 

[Drew 13.]

You can't paint 1k over 2k as it reacts. I painted a door in 2k paint then round the frame I painted it satin black out of a rattle can and it all reacted, the black paint all rinkled up!!

 

[grim_d]

Maybe that's because the paint was fresh or some other contamination?

I've done many 1k aerosol spot repairs over 2k paint with no reaction.

 

[tux]

Tux, I've never sprayed metallics, but always assumed that the colour coat (base) would also require hardener unless it was water based, in which case it's thinned with water, is this not the case, the metallic base coat is just thinned with xylene and applied without hardener?

No, no hardener required, just thinned with ordinary 2K thinners. It goes on very thinly and relies on the lacquer for protection. Thats any solvent based basecoat, not just metallic.
Water based basecoat is different again, but I have yet to have any experience with that.

In your case I would maybe go for...

synthetic, cellulose or even aerosol primer

water based base coat (the colour metallic coat)

1k clear.

Only thing is I'm not sure how water based will react over the top of those primers so hopefully somebody else can advise.

Why don't you pop down your local paint supply shop and ask their advice?, my shop are very friendly and helpful, explain to them that you don't have an air fed mask and they will surely point you in the right direction.

Water base should sit on top of cellulose OK, but it won't sit over synthetic. I don't think it will sit over aerosol either as that is usually acrylic and reacts with most things.

Again I'm not experienced with water based stuff, but I was led to believe that it needs huge amounts of airflow to cure properly?

Maybe that's because the paint was fresh or some other contamination?

I've done many 1k aerosol spot repairs over 2k paint with no reaction.

Have to say I have never had an issue with 1k over 2k either.